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Uncomfortable at Dog Park

3K views 20 replies 13 participants last post by  Tux's Mom 
#1 ·
The weather was barely good enough for a few days and things were drier than usual so I decided to have a go at the local dog park. It's separated into sections for the small dogs and the large dogs. Let me say, it wasn't that beautiful happy moment for my havs that I was hoping it would be. They didn't get hurt and weren't attacked, but they weren't thrilled about it and showed their discomfort for most of the time we were there. It was just overwhelming, in part because it was very crowded. Also, there was just bad manners going on all around. More than one dog owner brought in their large breed puppies to the small dog area. I get that large breed puppies are smaller than full grown dogs, but they ACT different than small breeds and obviously hadn't had much training or socialization yet.

I realized pretty quickly that Raff and Sass weren't interested in playing with other dogs, but were happy to stroll with me off leash on the track that goes around the outer edge. If we came across other dogs and they seemed uncomfortable, we could turn around and go the other way. It was going pretty well, and I had up-tails and smiley dogs for a bit, until this guy brought his herding dog puppy through a gate (I didn't know was there) between the large dog side and small dog side. We were just approaching the gate as the guy came through. Raffy immediately did an about face and went the other way. This larger breed puppy decided to chase at full speed, which made Raffy go as fast as hav legs can go, and then start yipping at the other dog "LEAVE ME ALONE!!!" The owner did not attempt call their dog back, but I did manage to get Raffy to return to me, and as he did he jumped up into my arms in fear. Now, the dog didn't bite or snap or growl at Raffy and was intending to play probably, but also did not know to interrupt itself and get out of Raffy's space. It was obvious that this was a bad situation for my dogs. And it wasn't the first large breed puppy/small dog altercation during the 20 minutes we were there. The first one happened between a lab puppy and someone else's small dog. In that scenario, the lab bulldozed the two or three little dogs before their owners told the lab owner to take her puppy out of the small dog area.

I really want my dogs to get some off-leash outdoor time not in our yard, but if this is what we have to deal with, it's just not going to happen. We may just have to stick to loose leash walks on a nearby biking/jogging trail. I'm supposed to keep my dogs socialized, but I'm not a very social person myself and don't have an abundance of dog-owning friends. They do extremely well with people, but they are initially cautious with other dogs until they get to know them. Getting to introduce slowly at a dogpark is just not a thing, I think. This is really a vent post more than anything because I'm frustrated about how it went and how scared Raffy got. I've never heard him make that kind of yip/yelp sound before.

Afterwards we went to the special pet store and got pets and kisses and bully sticks. Tails became up and waggy again.
 
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#2 ·
I'm sorry your pups didn't have a good experience at the dog park. Today, Emmie attended a Havanese Meetup in South Seattle. We get together the last Saturday of the month in the small dog area at Westcrest Park. There were 15-20 Havs attending. Maybe you can join us sometime. :)
 
#4 ·
I use long lines, 30 ft., when I want to give Leo and Rex the feel of off lead but want them under my control. We have parks with plenty of open space where I can let the run and chase each other without them getting tangled around trees or shrubs. I can also keep a watch for any loose dogs (they are permitted but people don't always follow the rules) and can call the boys back to me with the assurance of the lead for reeling in if they don't immediately start back. I gave up on dog parks several years ago. People often don't pay enough attention to their dogs and I just didn't want to put my dogs into that setting.
 
#5 ·
Loki likes the dog park when there are other small dogs there. As soon as a questionable dog comes in - we leave. This morning when we were walking there were only small medium dogs at the park. They ran around and chased and Loki was having fun. As soon as a big dog came in, we all left. It was rather amusing.

There is another small dog park we go to too. I am just really vigilant about the other dogs that are there. As soon as I am not comfortable or it looks like Loki is feeling stressed we just casually leave.

He does prefer other Havanese or small fluffy dogs!
 
#7 · (Edited)
Let me say, it wasn't that beautiful happy moment for my havs that I was hoping it would be. They didn't get hurt and weren't attacked, but they weren't thrilled about it and showed their discomfort for most of the time we were there. It was just overwhelming, in part because it was very crowded. Also, there was just bad manners going on all around.
This is the problem with dog parks! I generally avoid them. Not only are some dogs not socialized, but some owners bring sick dogs. I DO NOT want Ricky drinking out of the common water source. I agree with you that dog breed is more important than dog weight or size in segregating dogs. Just too many things can go wrong at a dog park. The least that can happen is a traumatized dog while the most is a severely injured dog.

Now having said that, we organize play groups of 2 to 5 dogs Ricky's size, in a private area. All the owners know each other well. All the dogs know each other well. We know the temperament of each dog. We bring our own water in a sealed bottle. We know when a dog isn't feeling well and he is excused from the group until he has been to the Vet. Each owner picks up after their dog immediately. We limit play time to 30 to 60 minutes. Each dog has a wonderful time. Some dogs engage in rowdy play, wrestling, chasing (a dog I know very well) and some just want to sniff around and explore (the intellectual types), and some older dogs just want to lay by their owner and watch all the activities (the "been there, done that" types). It is all good socialization.

I would try hooking up with the local Havanese playgroup. Havanese seem to recognize their breed and most of the time seem to be more compatible. But realize that some Havanese are extroverts and some are introverts. Let your dogs be whatever they are comfortable with being at the time. Don't force things. If your dogs are not having fun in any situation, remove them immediately and try another time.

No need to apologize about being an introvert. Momi tends to be an introvert.....until she meets another Havanese owner and then all she wants to talk about is Havanese, share experiences, laugh at their antics, trade tips on care, and enjoy the camaraderie. You would get along great with Momi and other Havanese owners.

I think there is a solution for you. You will just have to experiment and see what works best for you and your Havadoggies. It appears that a traditional dog park is not a good solution for you and your furkids.

Ricky's Popi
 
#8 ·
We never go to the dog park because Scout and Truffles don't enjoy it. They love to run and it just isn't large enough. My husband takes them to the park where there is a large field. Scout walks around to everyone insisting that they pet him. Truffles loves to run like the wind.
 
#9 ·
So sorry you had that experience, Askavi. Shama has been to a couple of dog parks when we've been traveling, but I haven't brought her to the local one yet. I keep coming across stories about bad encounters, and that makes me not want to bother. We have a great fenced-in yard. I just wish we knew more Havanese in the area who could come visit . . .
 
#10 ·
Dog parks have their place ,but are not for everyone. The dog needs to be conditioned to playing with other dogs first and foremost. It is not the place to learn socialization. The owner has to be educated in body language. Here are some guidelines .
Risky chasing behaviors almost always include out of control and high arousal chasing that may include one of more of the following: group chase, hard physical contact, pinning, high tail carriage, neck or throat fixation and the chasee hiding, or trying to get away.
Mobbing is a group of individual dogs approaching, harassing, controlling or attacking a single dog. This can be with or without bloodshed.
Targeting is one dog following or pursuing another dog relentlessly, exclusively, obsessively. It's relentless engagement that may or may not include many of the behaviors displayed in Risky Chasing.
Bullying is a form of aggressive behavior through the use of physical overpowering, hard contact, body slamming, hip-checking, shoulder-checking, relentless engagement, chase or ganging up to affect an individual dog.
Hunting is when a dog moves around the dog park going from dog to dog, looking for something to jab, chase, poke, pounce on, roll. This is not looking for a playmate, but forcing himself on other dogs.

here's a good article Animal Behavior Associates, Inc. Behavior Consulting
 
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#11 ·
Yup. I NEVER do local "town" dog parks. To much risk of bad encounters, fleas and illness.

We DO occasionally use dog parks in campgrounds when we are away in our RV, but then only when it's JUST my 3, or perhaps another small QUIET dog or two. If big or rambunctious dogs show up, we vacate.

Like Pucks, in places where I want to give my dogs room to run a bit, the younger two are on long lines. If off leash dogs are allowed, AND there aren't other dogs around, AND it is well away from any motorized vehicles, Kodi goes loose, but he has a very reliable recall... the girls don't, so they are on their long lines. We do, however, use theses spaces to practice long distance recalls... a LOT! :)

We are a big fan of Havanese play dates too. Our dogs understand each other, and seem to naturally gravitate toward being together. In almost 8 years of Havanese playdates now, I have only seen ONE "face-off", and that wasn't serious, but involved two stud dogs. Those owners leave those two home now, and only bring their other dogs.
 
#12 ·
I've decided that the dog park is just not going to happen again. There was definitely risky chasing behavior, with my dog on the receiving end of it. I will consider the South Seattle meet-up since I have a month to think about it. It's an hour drive each way, so I am am thinking about if the drive plus the visit will be too much for them. Raffy still occasionally gets car sick, even at 1 1/2. Sassy doesn't, but she's not been a huge fan of car rides so far, although we take plenty of them.

I have a friend that moved a couple hours away that suggested a large regular park near where she used to live. She said it's usually fairly deserted and she took her dog there to just play fetch and let him run. I may check that out when the rain goes away again. @Pucks104 how do you keep those long leashes from getting tangled while they're running and playing?

Although I have both in classes, I think I might be able to add an additional class for Raffy. There's a Pre-Agility class available that looks like it might fit the bill for him. I will go check out the facilities and talk to the trainers there over the next few days. I think the structure of a class with professional dog trainers in attendance is more my speed than the chaos of a dog park. The establishment I'm looking at offers other activities (Treibball) as well as allowing practice on the agility field/arena for a fee when there's no class going on.
 
#14 ·
I would LOVE to have Treibal close to us!!! I think it would be an awesome sport for our dogs!!!

As far as long lines are concerned, I find that if they are dragging on the ground, they rarely get tangled. In a few situations, when Panda was younger, I actually tied Kodi to one end of a long line, and Panda to the other. Kodi acted as Panda's ball and chain! ;)
 
#13 ·
I do believe havs recognize each other. Raffy needed no time at all when visiting his breeder's home to jump into the thick of things with the other havs and especially the puppies. He LOVES puppies. According to Sassy, coton de tulear is also an acceptable playmate. She and the coton in our puppy class play with each other to abandon, while ignoring all other puppies in the class.
 
#15 ·
I think there are a number of similar-sized breeds that can be good playmates. My dogs play willingly with Cotons, Bichons, Cavaliers and ETS's and are happy to chum around with Shih Tzus, though the Tzus we know are not particularly playful. I'm guessing that Maltese might be good too, though we don't know any.

Even though they are similar size-wise, my dogs are very wary of most small terriers, Min Pins, and ESPECIALLY Chihuahuas... who are WAY too much dog for my guys! :)
 
#16 ·
The long lines don't really seem to tangle much. They are very light weight nylon and the ones I have don't have a loop on the end like a leash does. I attach the clip to the dog harness and hold the ends. The dogs seem to learn pretty quickly that they need to run in circles rather than a straight line. You don't want them to run full out and hit the length of the line with a jolt. When I introduced the long line I kept it shortened like a regular leash and as we walked slowly gave them more room. Once they figured out the limits lengthwise they would play without going to the full length of the long line.
 
#17 ·
The long lines don't really seem to tangle much. They are very light weight nylon and the ones I have don't have a loop on the end like a leash does.
Yes. Mine are made of parachute cord, and made for nose work.
 
#18 ·
We've had Perry just over 2 months now and he's afraid of everything! When he met my sister's Norwegian elkhound (who was NOT at all in his face, despite all of her other issues :) ), she was keeping her distance (which was a little surprising because she does not have the best dog manners - she hates to have her butt sniffed for example), but after a few minutes, she turned and looked at Perry (just a look) and, if we hadn't been there you would have sworn that she had tried to bite his face off by the terror. I can only describe it as he screamed and then took off - in such terror that he ran head first into the baby gate separating the two rooms.

Of course, after that reaction, Freya wants absolutely nothing to do with him!

He did the same thing, though to a lesser extent, the next day when "confronted" (i.e. it walked slowly towards him) by a cat.

he hasn't had that reaction to anyone/ anything since then - just 'normal' fear (won't look at it, if he's on the ground moves as far away as he can, etc.) I really need more opportunities to socialize him, but it's difficult here.
 
#21 ·
I am convinced that you can not pigeonhole dogs behavior into breeds. Even a calm dog can suddenly erupt for seemingly no reason, but dogs are far more attuned to body language than humans. You can meet someone for the first time and initially have a far different opinion of them than what may eventually come to light. Remember news articles after they catch a serial killer and the neighbors who were interviewed would say, "I was shocked. He was such a nice person willing to help everyone!" Tux seems to know immediately which dogs he can trust and it is very few. He's usually right.

If you watch a person who doesn't understand canine body language (such as a small child) their first greeting of a dog is usually a hand over top of the dog's head, or to grab the dog's head to give him a big hug. Dog's are not human, and respond differently. Dog parks are a disaster waiting to happen. I would never turn my dog loose to run with even smaller dogs, unless we had a chance to get to know those animals in a safe controlled environment.

Yesterday we went to a dog event where all sized dogs were on-leash within the confines of a fence. The beings on the opposite end of the leashes, were sorely lacking control (and I don't mean the dogs). We decided not to attend. We did encounter many dogs on leash outside the fence in the shopping center, and my instincts had been correct. They were truly unpredictable (to make a long story short).
 
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