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Trick Comands

12K views 106 replies 25 participants last post by  krandall 
#1 ·
So Diego, who turned 9 months on Saturday, knows sit, down, come and pretty much knows stay (we need to continue practicing stay...he knows it, but after 30 seconds, he gets way too curious) but I was wondering on how to practice a couple of other specific ones.

Do your pups know:

Paw
Rollover
Play dead

??

If they do, what way did you specifically teach them how to do them? Did they pick up on it right away? Diego picked up on Sit and Down really quickly, and come took a little longer.

We have a couple of dog trick books but I want to get your input first before I consult the books :)
 
#41 ·
Carol I like what you said about the words training/teaching,it is teaching and that's what I love, teaching the dogs and/or teaching their owners. As with children (I'm a retired teacher) a lot is teaching then how to learn. I love when my dogs "get it" as in "oh what is she trying to teach me now?". Atticus is not there yet but my former dogs would go through all their tricks when I would say "what else can you do?" I was astounded to see their brains click in to do that!
 
#43 ·
Dogs learning to learn - a ramble



You're making me THINK! Maybe I should say, you're stimulating me to think, instead of "making me" think. Maybe it's not "think," but - "consider." Which would mean, reviewing, going over, what I've learned in the past, or - maybe - what I THINK - no, BELIEVE - I learned in the past.

Confused yet? HAHA!

Maybe my biggest trade secret for myself is that I ask this question of myself:

What if I'm wrong? I'll have to look up the article on my own site (a very large site) in which I remark on this situation. If I find it, I'll post a link.

Then there's also the question, "What if my (professional) TRAINER is wrong?" Yikes!

Aren't professional trainers supposed to be right?

And speaking of being right, what about veterinarians? My last animal-companion-dog before Camellia was diabetic. Wow; on the k9diabetes online forum, we learn that many, many vets are ill-educated in canine diabetes, with a result that some forum members have to change vets, searching out one who (for whatever reason) has a strong background in canine diabetes. And in the meantime, the truly well-educated forum owner/administrator is one of the best-educated lay-persons I ever "met."

Well, I think it's true that it's good for dogs to learn to learn, and, good for us to learn to learn, and wonderful for the dogs when we combine cues (we take cues from them, too), to ALLOW them to learn to learn. Really healthy and well-raised dogs (well-bred, too) have the most WONDERFUL capabilities for learning to learn, and sometimes I think, I should pay more attention to, how can I work out ways to teach my dog that don't GET IN THE WAY of their learning capabilities, but rather, enhance them?

So, a reason I like working with the principles of clicker-training, whether we use the clicker itself (an event-marker) or use a word instead, or some other sound, is that marking events (what the dog is doing) depends on - you guessed it - what the DOG is doing. Which typically arises from the DOG's thoughts and perceptions. In short, on their volitions. Which we can influence with various kinds of cues!

On my web site, I emphasize that the Eye of Dog is upon you. (Us.) Because, I'm sure we all notice, our dogs know so very much about what to expect, based on their watching of us.

Which is why I have difficulty catching Camellia for her weekly bath. I'm still ruminating about easing those difficulties.

Is that rambly enough for you? (Apologies, but it's very typical of my early investigations into learning - and my LATER ones, too!)

Finally, a remark on learning; this applies to dogs, and to humans too. My belief is that we - dogs and humans learn in little flashes of insight and comprehension (which may later need testing within the dog-or-human brain, to check for veracity or alterations) - but we do, I think, have these flashes of understanding. Then what's further required is, time to absorb those flashes, without being disturbed or distracted. Plain old time is our ally in teaching our dogs, ourselves, our students, our children.

Probably this ramble is long enough already, to put it mildly.

Enough, already!
Sun, 26 Feb 2012 07:53:09 (PST)
 
#42 ·
This looks like a very interesting thread, with a lot of leads to interesting research. This human needs a lot of help in learning how to teach my dogs! And I briefly saw the other thread about the dancing and people to check out. :peace: I have a feeling that once one starts checking this stuff out, it will just lead to more...and more... :biggrin1:

However, it will have to wait - plumbing issues - burst pipe on the upper level - waiting until decent hour to hopefully get hold of a plumber! On a Sunday! :(

About the rolling over, Augie is still working on it, but is getting better. Finn got it in 15 minutes.
 
#44 ·
This looks like a very interesting thread, with a lot of leads to interesting research. This human needs a lot of help in learning how to teach my dogs! And I briefly saw the other thread about the dancing and people to check out. :peace: I have a feeling that once one starts checking this stuff out, it will just lead to more...and more... :biggrin1:

However, it will have to wait - plumbing issues - burst pipe on the upper level - waiting until decent hour to hopefully get hold of a plumber! On a Sunday! :(

About the rolling over, Augie is still working on it, but is getting better. Finn got it in 15 minutes.
YIKES! Sorry about the plumbing! Wouldn't you know; it has to be a Sunday!

Leading to more and more? What triggers you to say THAT? Oh, Wow, take a Bow! Yeah - sometimes I have to shut myself down and trigger myself to walk away and leave things alone for a time! Otherwise, I'd become impossibly overwhelmed!

Of course, then also, we need to be aware, and sensitive to our dogs' needs; they too need time off!

So, you have the start of a rollover! Good for you! You can see that dogs are all different, even when they live in the same families! Even when they are all Havanese! (Or, since I've read on this forum lately about two intrepid Maltese, Snowy and Crystal, Maltese also!)

I love using the principles of clicker-training, because when WE are aware that behaviors we want can be broken down into their smallest elements, we can work on teaching a little bit at a time.

Doing that is very helpful to the learning-dogs.

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 08:14:30 (PST)
 
#45 · (Edited)
Haha, Carol - I will have to go back and re-read your posts when I can concentrate. At the moment, my mind is all over the place - if they have to carve too huge a hole into the bathroom to get at the plumbing, this might be a good time to make some changes that I have been contemplating and then, just like the research on this dog training, one thing invariably leads to another - right???? :biggrin1:

When Augie, my 3-year-old, was a puppy, we took him to classes that did not utilize clicker training. After those initial classes, we got him into classes with a trainer who did use clicker training. My, what a difference! My problem is that I have trouble seeing how to break the behaviors down into their small elements. After I am shown, it becomes clear and I can't believe I couldn't figure it out on my own.

With my two, and the difference in the way they learned the rolling over, for example, I got the feeling that, like humans, animals must have different learning styles, and what works for teaching one, may not be the best way to teach another. I am a very visual learner. If you show me something, I can usually do it. I worked with a woman (medical office) who, when something would go wrong with one of the machines, could open the manual, wade through it and figure out the problem and get it going again. I have major difficulty doing that. My son is a teacher and has to have different tricks up his sleeve for dealing with different learning styles. School did not come easily for him - he had to work at it - and I think it has helped in his profession with dealing with different learning styles. I am wondering if our dogs are also that way. Of course, dogs can't read, but maybe just in our approach to them? Or maybe you said that already? I probably should just not type anything in my present frame of mind! :)
 
#46 ·
Haha, Carol - I will have to go back and re-read your posts when I can concentrate. At the moment, my mind is all over the place - if they have to carve too huge a hole into the bathroom to get at the plumbing, this might be a good time to make some changes that I have been contemplating and then, just like the research on this dog training, one thing invariably leads to another - right???? :biggrin1:
Gee... sounds familiar! We've done so much work to the house, and most of it looks SO good that now I look at the kitchen and family room and think they look a bit shabby. Hmmm.:biggrin1:

My problem is that I have trouble seeing how to break the behaviors down into their small elements. After I am shown, it becomes clear and I can't believe I couldn't figure it out on my own.

With my two, and the difference in the way they learned the rolling over, for example, I got the feeling that, like humans, animals must have different learning styles, and what works for teaching one, may not be the best way to teach another.
Sometimes I can figure this out (and sometimes, like Carol said in another post, it will come in a "light bulb moment") but this is one of the reasons I really like taking occasional private lessons with the trainer I work with. I will explain something I'm having trouble with, and because of years of training MANY dogs, she can just pull something out of her "bag of tricks" that works.

And as you said, she regularly points out that no two dogs are alike. Different approaches may be necessary for different dogs. As CAROL said, you have to watch the dog and see what they are telling you.

A good example is that when Kodi was younger, we were having a really hard time with even very short sit-stays. I kept going in to reward him for staying, staying close, talking to him to remind him to stay... all the things we had been taught in our class. In a private lesson, I mentioned the problem, and the trainer had me show her what was going on. She immediately said, "His hind legs are slipping out from under him as he sits. I think he's getting uncomfortable, and that's causing him to get up. We started doing all his sit-stays on a piece of that rubberized stuff you use to line shelves, and voila! no more trouble!

After decades of training horses, I have a strong grounding in the CONCEPTS, but what we ask of dogs is very different from what we ask of horses, and while there are similarities, there are also BIG differences in how horse and dog brains work. I definitely couldn't have gotten Kodi where he is now without LOTS of help!

Incidentally, I had another one of those "light bulb" moments this morning. At our APDT level 3 Rally "training party" yesterday afternoon, one of the signs was one I haven't done with Kodi at all, the "drop on recall". I didn't have a CLUE how to teach it. The trainer (not the one I work with most often, but someone who is also very good) helped me just get the start of it, by placing a bar on the ground, calling him, having him down in front of the bar, then calling him to me. (keeping the whole thing over a VERY short distance)

When we got home, I went to feed him his supper. Our routine is that he must down while I put his dish on the floor, and then release him. That made me think, could I use this behavior that he knows so well, and morph it into the "drop on recall"? So this morning, I asked him to sit on the other side of the kitchen, and while holding his food dish, I called him toward me then asked for the down. He dropped like a rock! I put the bowl down, then called him to me again. I think it was a GREAT start toward a solid "drop on recall" because in THAT context, he knew the pieces. I'll just have to solidify the whole string, then put it on cue and generalize it. It was pretty cool, especially in the context of these conversations we've been having on the forum!

Thinking is fun!:)
 
#48 ·
Nice example Karen! thinking is fun for you and Kodi. I always feel the fun is in the teaching,once you get it you have joy seeing him do it of course' but the fun, the connection of trying to get your dog to understand what you want is over till the next challenge of course. As dogs want to do what we want basically (lucky us) it is all about trying to make it clear what the heck it is we want.
 
#49 ·
Jody - to me, there's something very special about the joy of making this kind of connection with our dogs. I think the dogs love it when they see and comprehend that they've made a connection with us. And of course, we feel the same way.

One thing I also like to do is to teach my dogs that THEY may make requests of me, and that I will go along with their requests if that seems to me a reasonable thing to do.

Which puts a HUGE spanner into the idea that we have to be "Alpha." That Alpha business has been thoroughly debunked anyway.

Leadership is a topic I want to post on someday; too complex for here and now. But I do think the notion of "Leadership" is a crock, too. I personally believe we are NOT our dogs' leaders. No. We are their Caretakers - solely responsible for our dogs' well-beings. Why gloss over that?

Eeek! I wasn't going to cover that topic right now! Too much else to do; haha!

Connection with our dogs seems to me the ultimate in joy!

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:43:21 (PST)
 
#52 ·
He's got it! That one time with the food dish, and Kodi has been doing the drop on recall, on cue, numerous times today, in several rooms in the house. I think he really understands!

A few times he came further than I wanted after I cued him to drop, so I started clicking when he went down as soon as I said the word, treating, then going back to call him the rest of the way. I can't believe how fast he's learned this one. (particularly considering that it took us NINE MONTHS to get a reliable "stand" on cue!:)
 
#53 ·
Back-chaining



WOW, Karen! That is fabulous!

You've begun the very useful technique of splitting a behavior down into its various parts.

There's also a useful technique called back-chaining. I can't seem to hang onto details right now; too many other things going on in my mind, but I'll at least explain what it is.

What you do is, teach the very last bit of the behavior FIRST. Then the next-to-last. Then you chain them together, so you get next-to-last, followed by last.

Then you teach the previous part of the behavior - such as doing the down just behind the bar. (Oh, maybe thet IS the next-to-last). So the part before that.

The reason for back-chaining is that it can be a lot easier for the dog to learn that way; learning a bit at a time, and once the first bit is learned, the dog has the whole thing, because it's been back-chained, and the rest of the behavior has become familiar and easy to do.

If you follow me. I'm sure others could explain this better than I just have! It's probably explained on Karen Pryor's web site

http://www.clickertraining.com

Have fun! Huge congratulations on your success with Kodi!

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:10:57 (PST)
 
#54 ·
Hi Carol, we've used back-chaining for other things... particularly for learning the contact obstacles for agility. But thanks for reminding me of another useful tool. If he continues to come too far before he drops, that might be a useful way of reminding him to drop right when I tell him to!
 
#55 ·
Karen,
you are awe inspiring.

The only two additional tricks I want Ollie to learn is to sneeze on command, and to cover his eyes (like he's sleepy or scared).


I'll most likely hafta to capture both behaviors, but it's so specific, and infrequent, I'm at a bit of a loss.

thx for the inspiration
Jackie
 
#56 ·
goole it!!! Can you believe what you can google??? I never taught sneeze,i can't do that how can they? You can capture if you get it enough . For nose touch you can use a bit of scotch tape or even a post it and click as they swipe at it, a trained dog like yours would get that pretty quick. I don't know if you think that is mean, my dog Scout only had the post it on 3times,and he got stuff stuck in his coat all the time so I was ok with it. I don't usually use anything like that but it was the only way I knew.Have you ever seen Emily Larlham (i think that's how you spell it. She is a fablous trainer (clicker) and has tons of video go to kikopup or Dogmantics she is well worth it if you don't know her has tons of training video on youtube.
 
#58 ·
ollie is learning a new trick, I thought maybe someone else might find it entertaining or helpful.

He knows left and right. well, the trick is you put out your right hand and shakes with the matching paw, the paw in front of your hand. what's cool, when you ask him to shake 3-4 times, in a row, left left, right, left.

I knew he was hand specific at school, he will only wave hi, if you use the hand signal with the left hand. i didn't notice till other adults would try to use the hand signal and he wouldn't do it unless you used your left hand.

anyway, I taught this by first taping the paw I wanted him to shake with.

If you used the wrong paw, I'd cover the wrong paw with one hand, and use the hand signal with the other hand. He had to shake with his free paw.

then I would just hold out the hand in front of the paw so my rigiht, his left.

eventually I'd like to work on the placement of my hand cue so if it was in the middle of his body, but my right hand he'd still shake with his left paw.
 
#60 ·
My breeder suggested the book "The Focused Puppy" and it is excellent for teaching your pup the basics in incremental steps. From the start (five months ago) Charley and I do training sessions at least twice a day. He gets all his food through training and earning it. Could be something simple like place, stay, wait and then release. he's got a fabulous wait by the way. When he's hungry he's very motivated and meal time has become our special time for training/play/fun and rewards. Teh training and play transfers nicely throughout the day as well. The last month or so he's learned that "applause" means he's done something exceptionally well. Started with hi-five. Then applause with rollover. And now, I'm teaching him to catch fly balls. He catches his kibble and just loves it. We also use a small soft ball for fly balls. Eventually I want him to be able to run and catch a fly ball but one step at a time. He's just 8 months old but he does over 35 things on cue. Okay so I'm bragging a bit. Is that okay? He's just such a great little puppy and we've worked so much over the past 5 months. I think consistency is key.
 
#64 ·
He's just 8 months old but he does over 35 things on cue. Okay so I'm bragging a bit. Is that okay? He's just such a great little puppy and we've worked so much over the past 5 months. I think consistency is key.
Of COURSE he's a great puppy, and you CERTAINLY can "brag!!!" I love hearing about people working with their dogs!:whoo:
 
#61 ·
totally ok to brag ;)

double roll over: teach him consecutive rollovers. then link them with it's own unique hand signal.

count and wave: needs to know how to shake first for either one of these.

count: instead of your open hand you have a closed fist, thumb up. when he goes to shake you tap under his paw with your closed fist. tap 2-3 times first then increase the number of times he taps your fist. then add the 'stop' cue with your other hand. whatever hand cue you want to use. I just use my finger in a parallel line to the floor.

wave: from a shake you delay the shake by not putting your hand so close to his paw. Then raise your hand in the air little by little, as he matches your hand in the air with the height of his paw. then for the finish, he should 'wave' back and hold his paw in the air as long your your hand up in the air, palm out facing him.

hope that helps. when teaching a new trick always reinforce 1:1 for every good attempt (even if it's just a lick on the treat).
 
#66 ·
thanks. regarding the double rollover. I can get Charley to do two rollovers (he loves them I think because I applaud!!) but he stands up in between. I'd like to get him to just keep rolling. any suggestions?
he does know shake so we'll work on the wave.
I'm happy to hear bragging is okay. thanks.
 
#62 ·
my all time favorite trick he has, which I've been meaning to expand upon, I don't have a name for.

I work with moderate to severely delayed children with autism. and a proven method of teaching this population, is called discrete trials.

for a child it goes something like: you want to teach them the photo or illustration of 'dog'. usually with a field of 4, but you might start with just 2 pics. you can say 'give me the dog' and the child hands you the pic of the dog. if they get it wrong, you might give a positional cue so they can experience success. then you would move the 'dog' picture to a different spot on the table and ask the same question again.

or you can hold up two pics and ask the student, 'touch the dog'. and they touch it you move both pics in the air to different locations and ask the same question again. then to add difficulty you add more pics to the array.


ollie knows the touch command. so I ask the class, or whomever I'm showing the trick to to pick which picture we're gonna teach ollie.

Then I only hold up the target pic, say 'fish'. and I say 'touch fish'. and each time he gets it right, I move the pic to a new location in the air, and ask again 'touch the fish'. after about 4 times, I add another pic and ask again. somehow he can recognize and track the 'fish' photo and is 80-90% correct most of the time.

it's pretty cool. I've been mean to expand to an array of 4, but i need to get stand or something, as it would take too long for me to manipulate 4 pics in my hand.

maybe I'll do a vid to demo it.
 
#65 ·
my all time favorite trick he has, which I've been meaning to expand upon, I don't have a name for.

I work with moderate to severely delayed children with autism. and a proven method of teaching this population, is called discrete trials.

for a child it goes something like: you want to teach them the photo or illustration of 'dog'. usually with a field of 4, but you might start with just 2 pics. you can say 'give me the dog' and the child hands you the pic of the dog. if they get it wrong, you might give a positional cue so they can experience success. then you would move the 'dog' picture to a different spot on the table and ask the same question again.

or you can hold up two pics and ask the student, 'touch the dog'. and they touch it you move both pics in the air to different locations and ask the same question again. then to add difficulty you add more pics to the array.

ollie knows the touch command. so I ask the class, or whomever I'm showing the trick to to pick which picture we're gonna teach ollie.

Then I only hold up the target pic, say 'fish'. and I say 'touch fish'. and each time he gets it right, I move the pic to a new location in the air, and ask again 'touch the fish'. after about 4 times, I add another pic and ask again. somehow he can recognize and track the 'fish' photo and is 80-90% correct most of the time.

it's pretty cool. I've been mean to expand to an array of 4, but i need to get stand or something, as it would take too long for me to manipulate 4 pics in my hand.

maybe I'll do a vid to demo it.
VERY cool!!!
 
#63 ·
I taught "around" which I assume is the same as spin by accident yesterday. Twice he was doing it and now no word, just the hand signal (with a treat in hand) I was trying to get him to place for walking, which is a never ending job, and made the movement with treat in hand to come around to my side! Oh well! Ted does "down" quite well although mostly by me saying down and dropping my hand to the floor. Sit he does by hand signal or the word. He also does "leave it" and "bring it" and "get it". We have been practising off leash the past week and he follows me anywhere...again because he knows I have a treat in hand! I find the stand was easy as I hold the treat at his standing level and say "stand" He can hold it for a few seconds.
 
#67 ·
double roll:

roll then 'down' command (to keep him from popping up), then roll again. once he gets the sequence correct, you can string them together and then give it it's own hand signal.

any time you want to link more than one existing command together, you first teach him the sequence, then after he learns the sequence, you assign a hand signal. after the hand signal you can add a word.

I don't teach ollie words, even though i do say a command, b/c I don't want the students to be shouting out random commands to him. as luck as it, ollie won't work for free, so it never happens at school. if he doesn't smell food on the person, he won't do a trick. it's pretty funny.
 
#70 ·
So, some of you may know that Ollie is a certified therapy dog with TDI and works with me at school (I'm a speech therapist) once a week.

today was his day to work. two of his academic tricks is 'discrete trials' and counting (which can look like addition, subtraction, multiplication or division).

They are reconfiguring the reading specialists in my school district, so there were 2 on their way out (end of the school day) and they see me, and Ollie by the teacher mail boxes. I usually explain to ppl that he's a certified therapy dog, I don't want him to think he's just roving around.

and so one of the reading specialists says she used to have one. and I mention he has some academic skills. in doubt the other RS says, like what?
I respond with, welll, he can discriminate b/t sight words and he knows his math facts up to 20 :biggrin1:.

the 2nd RS leans over and says, 'your kidding right?' and I'm like nope.

I look around and rip a piece of paper in two. ask them for two sight words and write them down.

mind you it's 3pm and Ollie is sleeping on the floor by my feet he's so tired.

anyway, I demonstrate with 'see' and 'the' (they picked 'the' to teach him). Ollie was so annoyed he had to work, he not only touched 'the' with his nose, he would chew on the paper every time :suspicious:.

Then I asked for a math fact that is under 20. 5+2. so Ollie, when he knows I don't have treats on me, he growls every time his paw his my fist. as if to say 'screw you'. that and he intentionally stops counting 1/2 way thru. I do a chest bump to kick start him.

he did a couple of math facts, and the reading specialists were literally :jaw:.

speechless. pretty cool.

imagine if they saw him first thing in the morning, he'd kill!
 
#72 ·
So right before my christmas vacation (2 wks), I realized that Ollie was doing a behavior, that looks just like play dead. some times when I try to tweeze his ear hair, or trim his nails, he rolls on his back, and puts is paws in the air and doesn't move. so over vacation I've finally taught him to play dead :) started with just giving him a treat when he was already on is back, being a butthead. then, I would roll him on his back and give him a treat. then I touch him on his neck lightly and he'd roll on his back and freeze. sometimes it wasn't a good roll (half way), or he'd be on his side, so I'd reposition him then give him a treat. Then I added a hand signal. then I started to vary the tricks I'd ask him, you a shake, a roll over, then a play dead. I thought I'd never figure out how to show him what I wanted, now he's got a new trick. happy new yr everyone!
 
#74 · (Edited)
I tried this afternoon to get some vid for you from my phone (video camera is at work), but I need two hands, and I can't hold the phone far enough back for you to get a full shot. plus Ollie has a dark face, so he just look like a big black mop!

plus I'm illin' and have lost my voice for the most part... I'll try it first thing I get back to work. he's better at school, b/c he knows he's working :)

Karen - any particular picture - noun or verb you want him to learn?
 
#75 ·
lol. Fun thread.
Bucky knows sit, stay, lay down, roll over, shake a paw and high five, and he dances. We're still working on loose leash, which he's just not liking one bit. lol. We had to take a few steps back recently when he'd roll over when asked to lay down.
We took an obedience class last year, which was a lot of fun and great socialization. He already knew most of the tricks and would do the entire repertoire for any command. lol. We had a lot of resetting before he stopped doing that.
Fia is working on lead training, stacking and free stacking, but since she's still baby puppy, we're taking it slow and letting her have some fun.
 
#78 ·
I know when we took class they said to put your dog in a down and have him follow a treat by moving it to its shoulder thus forcing him/her to start the roll. Ted didn't go for it. I guess I'll spend the day rolling around my bedroom carpet!
 
#81 ·
I've been told that for some dogs, particularly small dogs, rolling on their back is very hard for them to do emotionally, because it puts them in such a defenseless posture. I was never successful teaching Kodi to roll using luring. He is good at "capture" learning with a clicker, and since he DOES roll spontaneously, I'm sure, if I cared enough, I could capture the behavior and put it on cue. But we've had so many other things to work on, this one hasn't come to the top of the pile.:biggrin1: But, for those dogs reluctant to roll using the luring method you described, (and most won't learn by watching a human roll;)) capture can be a very powerful tool!
 
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