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Old 12-27-2012, 01:19 PM   #11
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I was just about to say Charley is just like Cora but then I read he is 1 year old. Cora is only. 6.5 months old. So the big show is yet to come?
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:21 PM   #12
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thanks for your advice. not sure about grabbing him by the scruff. I don't want that one to backfire on me. glad to hear maccabbee is the same - maybe it's an age thing then.
but Charley has become relentless at times. And yes, I suspect he is a bit bored. It's winter, it's COLD out, been very wet and the walks are defineitly shorter than they had been. Also, he's not out playing with his dog buddies like he use to be in the warmer weather. So I agree, I think he is restless. That said, now what??
I think ignoring some of the behaviors is a good idea. For example, the scratching - he gets to go out once. If he's done his business maybe the next scratch I will just ignore. I've been responding to his scratching and feel like a doorman. So in a sense I suppose I have trained him to do this. Well, now I need to untrain him. No more doorman. If I need to I will just leave the room. I hope he will take the hint??!
The jumping to the countertops. That one feels a bit dangerous. At times, he went to grab a towel that had a heavy bowl on it. If the towel comes down so will the bowl on his head. Perhaps I should put a soda can with pennies in it - allow him to pull the towel - the soda can will come flying and be noisy and voila! Maybe it will scare him into not doing it again. Is that a good or bad idea?
The whining - sometimes I whine back. He just tilts his head and looks at me weird.
The jumping on my legs with a ball in his mouth wanting me to throw the bowl. When this first happened I thought it was cute that he was trying to hand me the ball. But the behavior has progressed to e.g., while i'm washing dishes, he's on my legs with the ball yada yada and it doesn't stop. My fault again. For now on I will ignore this behavior. I realize that at some point I reinforced it and now Charley is making me nuts!!! I will try to undo this.
And the leash pulling - we were so good for a while. Not sure what happened. Have to look at this again. I suppose I'm allowing him to pull which actually trains him to do it. That stopping everytime he pulls so that he learns that to go forward there needs to be a loosh leash - I find that so challenging at times. It means that we would probably take an hour just to go down the street!!! What does everyone else do about this?
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:36 PM   #13
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well one thing you can say about Charlie is - He's VERY smart!!!
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:35 PM   #14
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just so happens both these topics are covered by the same guy,

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1034 for counter surfing

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1171 for eliminating the unwanted trips to just play. (used for bell training)
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:09 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Charleysmom View Post
thanks for your advice. not sure about grabbing him by the scruff. I don't want that one to backfire on me.
I agree. Not a great idea. It can work, but it can also backfire.

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Originally Posted by Charleysmom View Post
but Charley has become relentless at times. And yes, I suspect he is a bit bored. It's winter, it's COLD out, been very wet and the walks are defineitly shorter than they had been. Also, he's not out playing with his dog buddies like he use to be in the warmer weather. So I agree, I think he is restless. That said, now what??
Kodi's first winter was the hardest too. I could have called him relentless too.. I did several things. I kept up the classes, so we always had training things to work on at home, I bought the DVD "Crate Games" by Susan Garrett, and we did a LOT of crate games practice. It's not all abou teaching a dog to like their crate... It also teaches them self control and they can burn a lot of energy with some of the exercises. I also bought this toy called a "flirt pole" (you can find it on Amazon, among other places) it is essentially a toy on a string, attached to a long stick. You wiggle the stick, and the dog chases the toy. They LOVE it, and you can burn a HUGE amount of energy quite quickly and in a fairly small area. All theses things helped me keep Kodi worn out enough that he didn't drive me crazy that first winter!

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The jumping to the countertops. That one feels a bit dangerous. At times, he went to grab a towel that had a heavy bowl on it. If the towel comes down so will the bowl on his head. Perhaps I should put a soda can with pennies in it - allow him to pull the towel - the soda can will come flying and be noisy and voila! Maybe it will scare him into not doing it again. Is that a good or bad idea?
I think it's a great idea. I'd set it up and see what happened several times, in slightly different ways. "Natural consequences" can be very powerful as long as you use something you know can't really hurt him. Just be careful to be far enough away, and say or do NOTHING, so he doesn't associate it with you... For two reasons. You don't want him to become afraid of YOU, and conversely, you don't want the message to be, "I can only pull things off the counter if she's not around."

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The whining - sometimes I whine back. He just tilts his head and looks at me weird.
THAT is one I'd totally ignore. I think whining back might encourage him.

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The jumping on my legs with a ball in his mouth wanting me to throw the bowl. When this first happened I thought it was cute that he was trying to hand me the ball. But the behavior has progressed to e.g., while i'm washing dishes, he's on my legs with the ball yada yada and it doesn't stop. My fault again. For now on I will ignore this behavior. I realize that at some point I reinforced it and now Charley is making me nuts!!! I will try to undo this.
I tried putting jumping on my leg on "ignore" for a L O N G time without it slowing down. This is one place where I found teaching a replacement behavior VERY effective. At times where he might be tempted to jump on me (in Kodi's case, it's mostly in the bathroom for some reason) I put him in a down, and make him wait, before he gets a chance to get himself all worked up. In the beginning, he needed lots of reminders and lots of reinforecement cookies to stay down as long as I needed him to. Now he will stay down until I release him, at which time he DASHES into the kitchen to get the cookie he knows I will give him for holding the stay.

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And the leash pulling - we were so good for a while. Not sure what happened. Have to look at this again. I suppose I'm allowing him to pull which actually trains him to do it. That stopping everytime he pulls so that he learns that to go forward there needs to be a loosh leash - I find that so challenging at times. It means that we would probably take an hour just to go down the street!!! What does everyone else do about this?
It just takes time and persistence, unfortunately. If you aren't already using an anti-pull harness like the Sense-ible, I'd steongly suggest trying that. It made a HUGE difference in how much Kodi tried to pull when he was younger.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:18 PM   #16
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This is all such excellent advice. I'm learning so much here. It's great how you distinguish "natural consequence" from ignoring from replacement behavior. So much better than just saying "no" 1000 times a day. A dog learns to shut that out. Anyway, so far, some of this is working. With the door scratching, I respond to Charley once. If he needs to do potty he has the opportunity. After that, I've been ignoring the scratching and doing a replacement behavior like, "get the toy" or "place". Today I was able to distract him and so we'll see what happens tom'row.

I still need to read the article on Countersurfing. Great term.

Also, before getting Susan Garrett's book, wondering if you can give me an example of a crate game? At this point we do some self control exercises in the crate but I'm sure Garrett has some good ideas.

Yes, first winter is tough. I hope it gets easier. It snowed yesterday and the roads were thoroughly salted so Charley was limited to front yard today. Fortunately a couple of his friends came by and he was able to play. But it's just not like the warmer months. I do try to wear him out with tunnel games, catch, fetch, pushups, rollover , tugging, the wiggle and all sorts of fun things. We do have quite a good time. But more games would be great.

We use the Premier no pull harness. It works somewhat. Once he's pulling I can redirect him but he is still so often out in front. He does respond to "side" but I suppose it's me - I get tired of having to keep repeating it. And he will come to side. It's just - how do I get him to stay there?

By the way, I'm afraid Charley is no longer interested in the litter box. And I need to figure out how to get him back into it. Any ideas? Even if I am out ALL day he will wait until I get home to go outside.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:27 PM   #17
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just so happens both these topics are covered by the same guy,

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1034 for counter surfing

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1171 for eliminating the unwanted trips to just play. (used for bell training)
interesting article on countersurfing. for Charley, he usually wants to steal towels, paper and toy etc. It's not usually food (I'm vegetarian) that sends him jumping. Just a kitchen towel makes him nuts. Placemats. I'm not sure about the part about what's reinforcing his behavior. Is it the presence of towels? There is no meat in my house. Anyway, we will work on go to place. Actually Charley is excellent at that. And he'll stay and wait in his crate. I will work on increasing the duration. But I will need to reward him. Will save some kibble to use throughout the day. thanks for the article.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:02 AM   #18
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Also, before getting Susan Garrett's book, wondering if you can give me an example of a crate game? At this point we do some self control exercises in the crate but I'm sure Garrett has some good ideas.
Ummm, I haven't even looked at the DVD in a while. There are a LOT of progressive exercises, ranging from simply going into and out of the crate to using the crate as a target in agility work and many other things. I'm not sure I can give you a single example that would show the value of the DVD. Her "Success with One Jump" is great too, but more an outdoor sort of thing unless you have LOTS of room indoors.

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We use the Premier no pull harness. It works somewhat. Once he's pulling I can redirect him but he is still so often out in front. He does respond to "side" but I suppose it's me - I get tired of having to keep repeating it. And he will come to side. It's just - how do I get him to stay there?
Remember, you shouldn't really "redirect" him, nor should you tell him "side." If he pulls, you simply stop dead until HE remembers where he should be! Also, is there a specific reason he must remain at your side? I have a looser criteria for Kodi on casual walks. He must maintain the same general direction as me, and I don't want him to pull. Other than that, I don't mind if he drops behind for a second to sniff something, or takes the lead as we are walking. (his preferred position on walks, actually!) BUT, if he pulls AT ALL, he needs to be back at my side, with a shorter leash. This is where he is least likely to get distracted or over-excited. When he's calm again, he is allowed to have more freedom. While he clearly understands these rules, and mostly abides by them now, he IS still a dog, and things like a squirrel or rabbit can catch his attention and make him "forget". These are the times the harness is a great reminder.

It is very important to me that Kodi understand that there are times for formal heeling, and times for casual, loose leash walking. It's not good for a dog's neck and back to maintain the formal "heads up" heeling position for long periods of time. When we are not in the ring, I want him to respect my space and not pull, but other than that, I just want us to be able to walk companionably. Even in his preferred position, which is out in front of me, he is completely aware of where I am and what I'm doing, as proven by the fact that he knows which way we are turning at street corners. He can only get this information from me, since we don't go the same way every day!

That said, this understanding between us developed over a LONG period of time, and I'd bet he was closer to 2 before he was really reliable about it. (and he STILL tries to pull more with my DH) The important thing is to decide what your criteria are, and be VERY consistent about reinforcing! BTW, that's another great thing about Susan Garrett's DVD's... they will teach YOU a lot about setting and maintaining criteria, a really important part of dog training. A LOT of the problems people have with dog training is that THEY aren't clear and consistent about their own criteria, so it is very difficult for the dog to learn what the rules of the game are!

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By the way, I'm afraid Charley is no longer interested in the litter box. And I need to figure out how to get him back into it. Any ideas? Even if I am out ALL day he will wait until I get home to go outside.
Kodi went through a period of being unwilling to use the box too. We just made sure it was always available. Over time, he decided on his own that there were times (pouring rain, deep snow) when the litter box was more attractive than the alternative!!! I think I mentioned that yesterday, after the storm, he TRIED to find an "acceptable" spot outside, and finally came in and used his box under protest. It's fine with me if he wants to hold it until I get home. But i want him to KNOW he has an alternative if he needs it. They DO remember!
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:28 PM   #19
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Toby has actually mellowed out after turning 1. When he was a pup, he was more of a go getter and would NOT cuddle. Now, all he wants is to cuddle (with me only). He is getting on the furninture now, which he did not do before, but only when I am on the furniture and he wants a cuddle. If nobody is on the sofa, he won't even look at it.
He does jump on you when he wants attention or when you get home, I usually ignore him unless he scratches then I firmly tell him no.
He is very obedient and will "get" it quickly when he knows you are upset with his behaviour. Does that make sense?...
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:41 PM   #20
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This is all such excellent advice. I'm learning so much here. It's great how you distinguish "natural consequence" from ignoring from replacement behavior. So much better than just saying "no" 1000 times a day. A dog learns to shut that out. Anyway, so far, some of this is working. With the door scratching, I respond to Charley once. If he needs to do potty he has the opportunity. After that, I've been ignoring the scratching and doing a replacement behavior like, "get the toy" or "place". Today I was able to distract him and so we'll see what happens tom'row.

I still need to read the article on Countersurfing. Great term.

Also, before getting Susan Garrett's book, wondering if you can give me an example of a crate game? At this point we do some self control exercises in the crate but I'm sure Garrett has some good ideas.

Yes, first winter is tough. I hope it gets easier. It snowed yesterday and the roads were thoroughly salted so Charley was limited to front yard today. Fortunately a couple of his friends came by and he was able to play. But it's just not like the warmer months. I do try to wear him out with tunnel games, catch, fetch, pushups, rollover , tugging, the wiggle and all sorts of fun things. We do have quite a good time. But more games would be great.

We use the Premier no pull harness. It works somewhat. Once he's pulling I can redirect him but he is still so often out in front. He does respond to "side" but I suppose it's me - I get tired of having to keep repeating it. And he will come to side. It's just - how do I get him to stay there?

By the way, I'm afraid Charley is no longer interested in the litter box. And I need to figure out how to get him back into it. Any ideas? Even if I am out ALL day he will wait until I get home to go outside.
My trainer said to pick a method of potty. She said its confusing to them to give them more than one place to go. Ted has always preferred outside. I had pee pads in his pen but he only ever used them twice. Sounds like yours has made a decision that he also prefers outside.
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