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Old 01-02-2013, 04:14 PM   #31
Suzi
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That is a FABULOUS idea, Lucile!!!

Suzi, you could do shelter puppies a real service by giving the the love and attention they need so much in their first critical weeks before going to their forever homes!!!
That is a good idea! I wounder if you have to be a stay home mom?
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:18 PM   #32
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I have a strong dryer but its a cool air and its so loud it hurts my ears. Zoey gets freaked out by it . I don't understand if they are suppose to be shown natural why cant the judges except their slightly wavy coat. It would be so much kinder to the dogs. Their are a lot of politics to showing that I don't like. To be a reputable Havanese Breeder and finish your dogs one really needs to be forking out so much money. Or have a really exceptional Havanese with all the right stuff. I cant imagine any dog really liking the continual grooming. I would enjoy showing more if I didn't feel so bad for my dog. I liked the hobby with the exception of all the grooming. Karen's right about the handler that's another political aspect of showing I don't like.
Their has been a question in my mind for awhile now about not breeding in tell a Havanese has gotten its championship. I cant imagine their being enough litters to handle all the people who want a Havanese.It does make sense to just have the best dogs breeding to in better the breed. I don't know how to study the numbers to try to figure out how many show havanese females their are in the right age group. And if each had one litter a year how many Havanese would their be? This probably isn't the right trend for me to be asking this question. I have been afraid to bring up the subject. But it sounds as tho you are going ahead with breeding with or with out a championship. And as long as you are doing all the health testing and are working with your experienced Breeder I think that's fine. My one question because I have thought about it is how can you work and have a litter of puppy's?
Suzi,

You have a lot in this post so let me try to cover most of it:

1. It just sounds like you don't have the experience for drying a coat. If a new bather at PetSmart can properly blow out a thick curly poodle coat, you can blow out your Havanese coat. You just have to be persistant. If you are within driving range of Zoey's breeder, have him/her groom Zoey while you watch. Then try to repicate at your home.

2. As far as grooming not being nice to dogs, that's bologne. With the right temperment and proper handling, a relatively calmish dog can take a lot of grooming. My Hanna lays on her side perfectly still for me to comb out each section of her, but that is only because I stay on top of the coat and do not let mats form. But if you only brush out your blowing-coat dog once every three days instead of twice a day and you are tugging on mats as you have struggled with, yes, that is torturous to dogs.

3. Dogs in the show ring need to look their best. A Havanese with a wavy coat texture to a judge looks like it was not groomed properly, as even poodles with their genuine curls will have straight hair after grooming.

4. You appear to be saying that I am being irresponsible for breeding my dog before having a championship title, however you and me both know that not every dog with a "CH" should be bred, and a dog that doesn't, doesn't necessarily mean that it shouldn't. I also find it strange that I should be getting lectured to about responsible breeding by you, who for all intents and purposes was keen on breeding Mady, your first Havanese, whose hair fell out, has dwarf legs, comes from a backyard breeder, is not a show prospect, and was not spayed until quite recently. I am already catching some flack for deciding to breed my dog, this coming from people who insist that all breeders are criminals because of the shelter population. I don't mind getting asked questions but the suggestion from you of all people, that I am irresponsible for breeding Hanna, is rich.

I can't upload Hanna's blown-out picture right now, but basically she looks electrocuted. I have to brush, comb and mist her for about 20 minutes until the hair lays down nicely and I get the above after photos of her.

Showing might have a lot of politics, but if you can't handle or groom the dog well, the dog will not win anything. You say Maddy won't walk well, you might want to hire a handler that grooms as well.

I guess since I have to explain myself, I will add that I am going on a summer leave at my employment to stay home with my boys before they head off to Kindergarten next September, and to be home with the puppies.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:38 PM   #33
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Sorry I didn't mean to make it sound that way. I was actually talking about my feelings towards showing . The only thing I said towards you was that I think its fine to breed before a championship. I was only wondering about the time involved when a person works because that's why I'm not doing it.
Funny how people can get so defensive and then attack I didn't appreciate that at all. Maddie doesn't have Dwarf legs.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:04 PM   #34
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Their has been a question in my mind for awhile now about not breeding in tell a Havanese has gotten its championship. I cant imagine their being enough litters to handle all the people who want a Havanese.It does make sense to just have the best dogs breeding to in better the breed. I don't know how to study the numbers to try to figure out how many show havanese females their are in the right age group. And if each had one litter a year how many Havanese would their be? This probably isn't the right trend for me to be asking this question. I have been afraid to bring up the subject. But it sounds as tho you are going ahead with breeding with or with out a championship.
I don't know what other way to take this than saying my dog isn't fit for breeding. But then after that you back off of it and say as long as I do the health testing it's ok? Since when are you an authority on breeding, especially with your endless documentation and postings on this same forum all about Mady, how you suspected her mother was dwarf-legged, and her too, how her hair fell out, how you want to breed puppies from her, how many people several times over have strongly advised you not to, and on and on. And to top it all off, now you're saying she is in fact not yet spayed? You're still toying with the idea of breeding from her?

Look, I am not going to get pulled into the weeds with you, but first of all, with your track record you shouldn't be making comments like the above, and second, if you don't want people to know certain things about your dog, don't post a novel about it! I respect the advice from people with experience that have gone before me, but this is not the case with you.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:24 PM   #35
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[quote=atsilvers27;460569]I don't know what other way to take this than saying my dog isn't fit for breeding. But then after that you back off of it and say as long as I do the health testing it's ok? Since when are you an authority on breeding, especially with your endless documentation and postings on this same forum all about Mady, how you suspected her mother was dwarf-legged, and her too, how her hair fell out, how you want to breed puppies from her, how many people several times over have strongly advised you not to, and on and on. And to top it all off, now you're saying she is in fact not yet spayed? You're still toying with the idea of breeding from her?

Look, I am not going to get pulled into the weeds with you, but first of all, with your track record you shouldn't be making comments like the above, and second, if you don't want people to know certain things about your dog, don't post a novel about it! I respect the advice from people with experience that have gone before me, but this is not the case with you.[/quot
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:28 PM   #36
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I have a strong dryer but its a cool air and its so loud it hurts my ears. Zoey gets freaked out by it . I don't understand if they are suppose to be shown natural why cant the judges except their slightly wavy coat. It would be so much kinder to the dogs. Their are a lot of politics to showing that I don't like. To be a reputable Havanese Breeder and finish your dogs one really needs to be forking out so much money. Or have a really exceptional Havanese with all the right stuff. I cant imagine any dog really liking the continual grooming. I would enjoy showing more if I didn't feel so bad for my dog. I liked the hobby with the exception of all the grooming. Karen's right about the handler that's another political aspect of showing I don't like.
Their has been a question in my mind for awhile now about not breeding in tell a Havanese has gotten its championship. I cant imagine their being enough litters to handle all the people who want a Havanese.It does make sense to just have the best dogs breeding to in better the breed. I don't know how to study the numbers to try to figure out how many show havanese females their are in the right age group. And if each had one litter a year how many Havanese would their be? This probably isn't the right trend for me to be asking this question. I have been afraid to bring up the subject. But it sounds as tho you are going ahead with breeding with or with out a championship. And as long as you are doing all the health testing and are working with your experienced Breeder I think that's fine. My one question because I have thought about it is how can you work and have a litter of puppy's?
Why do you feel that was attaching you It had nothing to do with you and your decision. You are way too defensive and very mean.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:55 PM   #37
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That is a good idea! I wounder if you have to be a stay home mom?
Every organization has different criteria. I applied to do this one year when i was a student (i was just doing research and could work from home). I met all their criteria except for a "fenced in backyard" I have no idea why you would need a fenced in yard to foster young puppies, but that was one of their criteria so i was turned down. Instead I went to the shelter and helped with the puppies there. It was still great; gave me the "puppy fix" without the responsibility. I was not in a position to own a dog at that point in my life but I was so lonely and wanted one so bad.

I would definitely look into this in your area. Call your local shelters and rescue organizations and see if they need help with puppies. Springtime is the usual season when they need fosters.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:47 PM   #38
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I wish you were closer to me. Hanna always looks magnificent when you groom her. They do change as they grow up and the look is somehow more adult. She's beautiful!

I'm so sorry to hear about the vet. Come to think of it, I have been present for all vaccinations. Scary to have to worry about that, in addition to everything else.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:16 PM   #39
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Wow what a beauty!
So sorry about your old vet. They should pay for you to get titers run for Hanna. I can't understand why someone would get all that education and become a vet to flush it down the toilet with stupidity and greed.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:59 PM   #40
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I agree. My DH and FIL were laughing at me when I said, "I don't understand... he was so nice!" Exactly. But Karen is right, even if I were present for every vaccination it could still be a watered down serum. At some point I just have to trust again.
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