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Old 01-04-2013, 03:50 AM   #131
heatherk
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Aww - coming to this late, but I really feel for you and for Tillie. You two are really special to me and I'm sad that she is not herself. I hope that she (and you) feel better soon. ((hugs))
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:10 AM   #132
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Oh, my heart breaks for you and Tillie. I hope you get to the bottom of this! XOXO Tammy.
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:50 AM   #133
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Tammy, I use peppermint essential oil a lot for Roki. It helped him to completely cure car sickness. It is safe for dogs and it calms them down, it is good for anxiety and stress. You need good quality peppermint essential oil. Put a drop or two on cotton ball an put it in Tillie's crate when you feel she will be under stress. Some aromatherapist for dogs even rub diluted peppermint into paw pads. Dilution ratio is 10 drops odf carrier oil (almond, jojoba...) and one drop of peppermint. It really works. I also put in his grooming spray mixture because it is the most powerfull natural insecticide for fleas and ticks and it calms him so much that he falls asleep while brushing.
She would definitely benefit from Cher4Life Transfer Factor canine formula. It is not so expensive (around $40 for three months) and works miracles on immunity. It will strengthen her body so that it could fight better with that UTI. Roki was on it for six months. Wonderful results! Good natural vitamins/minerals coud help a lot too!
Roki was so fearful (running away from bigger dogs, shaking and drolling in car) when he was sick (yeast infection and pyodermatis) and now I can see HUGE improvement. Here is the link

http://www.cher4life.com/Products/Animal-Health.html
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:10 PM   #134
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Hey Tammy, what an ordeal. Glad things seem to be getting better, I hope you get answers soon. Too sad to think of sweet Tillie unhappy.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:59 PM   #135
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Tammy, I am glad you are following up with the vet. I am so sorry you are still dealing with this. I think you should also review behavior...both Tillie's and your families.

Both my boys went through, sort of a "fear stage" somewhere around 2 years old (a year apart as they are 6 and 7 years old now) I found nothing in the books or on here about a 2 year old fear stage, and my boys are as different as different can be, but both of them around 2 years old started to hesitate to do things they had always enjoyed. like going out back for Jasper, and walking around the neighborhood for Cash. Cash had some potty issues at this time as well, Jasper sank into what could only be described as a deep depression. After Vets (and forums) were consulted... we just buckled down and started re-potty training for Cash and re-socializing for them both. We spent more one on one time with each of them. Bringing them out and giving them more confidence. Since Jasper's happened first we knew what to do when it happened to Cash. We sort of figured out what set Jasper off, but never did figure out what frightened Cash. But they both came around within a few months of us re-working with them.

I have two thoughts as to why this happened in our house...one, at two, they are just so much more aware of everything, they are totally invested in "the pack" and that awareness and dependence can spark fear behavior...of change, or danger to the pack. and two, at the same time, the human pack is venturing out more and more now than puppyhood is over... the dogs spend more time alone...fewer walks(cause they can hold it)... less play time...we're all adults now!

It is exhausting, at 2 or 3 years old, cause you think the hard work is done and that you just get to enjoy them. But I have heard it said here that Havanese are soft dogs... they are very sensitive, and intuitive (even if their intuitiion is wrong) and a new pattern can be set off by the silliest thing or maybe a real thing.

are you overworked? are your kids out of the house more? is your husband stressed?
is Tillie being treated like the "family pet" last in line, when she used to be first?

I'm not saying Tillie should be first... but if you can figure out what has changed in her eyes maybe you can help her understand that it is ok...

I'm also not saying that a medical issue has nothing to do with it, but the more time that goes by the more I think there may be a temprement issue as well. And re-focusing on training and behavior can certainly do no harm.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:22 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Missy View Post
Tammy, I am glad you are following up with the vet. I am so sorry you are still dealing with this. I think you should also review behavior...both Tillie's and your families.

Both my boys went through, sort of a "fear stage" somewhere around 2 years old (a year apart as they are 6 and 7 years old now) I found nothing in the books or on here about a 2 year old fear stage, and my boys are as different as different can be, but both of them around 2 years old started to hesitate to do things they had always enjoyed. like going out back for Jasper, and walking around the neighborhood for Cash. Cash had some potty issues at this time as well, Jasper sank into what could only be described as a deep depression. After Vets (and forums) were consulted... we just buckled down and started re-potty training for Cash and re-socializing for them both. We spent more one on one time with each of them. Bringing them out and giving them more confidence. Since Jasper's happened first we knew what to do when it happened to Cash. We sort of figured out what set Jasper off, but never did figure out what frightened Cash. But they both came around within a few months of us re-working with them.

I have two thoughts as to why this happened in our house...one, at two, they are just so much more aware of everything, they are totally invested in "the pack" and that awareness and dependence can spark fear behavior...of change, or danger to the pack. and two, at the same time, the human pack is venturing out more and more now than puppyhood is over... the dogs spend more time alone...fewer walks(cause they can hold it)... less play time...we're all adults now!

It is exhausting, at 2 or 3 years old, cause you think the hard work is done and that you just get to enjoy them. But I have heard it said here that Havanese are soft dogs... they are very sensitive, and intuitive (even if their intuitiion is wrong) and a new pattern can be set off by the silliest thing or maybe a real thing.

are you overworked? are your kids out of the house more? is your husband stressed?
is Tillie being treated like the "family pet" last in line, when she used to be first?

I'm not saying Tillie should be first... but if you can figure out what has changed in her eyes maybe you can help her understand that it is ok...

I'm also not saying that a medical issue has nothing to do with it, but the more time that goes by the more I think there may be a temprement issue as well. And re-focusing on training and behavior can certainly do no harm.
Here's something a friend of mine shared on FB earlier today, that goes along exactly with what you are saying, Missy! This is specifically addressing fear issues that can turn to aggression later, but I'm sure it includes ALL kinds of fear issues, and maturity in general. So many people think their "puppy" is all grown up when their body stops growing at about a year. But they have s-o-o-o much farther to go in terms of mental maturity.

"Reisner Veterinary Behavior & Consulting Services

Tuesday

Tuesday's Pearl: A dog's' brain matures more slowly than his body, and may not be "grown up" until 3 or 4 years of age. This is especially important when a puppy or young adult is fearful, because mature dogs are more likely to show their fear through aggression. If your young dog is skittish with strangers or especially sensitive to an older household dog, monitor and intervene sooner rather than later."
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:25 PM   #137
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Karen, that is so much shorter and eloquent!
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:08 PM   #138
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yes! thank you for your advice and encouragment!

After Christmas, I did realize that because of everything that has been going on I haven't been taking her anywhere, not even on walks because she would refuse to walk! So, yes, she was being left behind more and more over the past few months. Once I "woke up" and realized this we have all been working harder to include her in as much as we can. So much so that when we went to Costco the other night the kids were confused why Tillie wasn't coming with us. lol
I have been taking her with me to run errands and have discovered that as long as I keep the car under 40 mph she doesn't tremble or stress in the car. She is getting out of the house and being around people again, which she loves and I love having her with me. She HAD become 'just a dog' in the hustle and bustle of our crazy busy lives.
In fact I have said, more than once in the past few months that IF our lives would have been THIS busy and crazy 2-3 yrs ago, we probably never would have gotten a dog. Sad, yet true. I go back to work, kids go back to school on Tuesday and making time for Tillie will again be a struggle. But I am hopeful that I will at least be able to return to bring her with me to pick the kids up from school, which was ALWAYS a HUGE highlight of her day, but I had to stop doing because of her recent trembling and fear of the car... anywho. I need to call the vet on Monday and see when I can bring her in for a follow up and full blood work. BECAUSE I have also noticed she is getting chunky!! Her diet is and always has been the same... I am hoping it's just cause she hasn't had as much excerise as she has in the warmer months... anywho, so thankful to have all of you to talk with through all of this!
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:36 PM   #139
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Tammy, you're such a good mom and fur mom. I know it was mentioned earlier on, but do have the vet check her thyroid levels. Especially with the weight gain along with everything else. If yourvet can draw blood and submit it through Jean dodd's hemopet... Even better.

Hang in.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:05 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by krandall View Post
Here's something a friend of mine shared on FB earlier today, that goes along exactly with what you are saying, Missy! This is specifically addressing fear issues that can turn to aggression later, but I'm sure it includes ALL kinds of fear issues, and maturity in general. So many people think their "puppy" is all grown up when their body stops growing at about a year. But they have s-o-o-o much farther to go in terms of mental maturity.

"Reisner Veterinary Behavior & Consulting Services

Tuesday

Tuesday's Pearl: A dog's' brain matures more slowly than his body, and may not be "grown up" until 3 or 4 years of age. This is especially important when a puppy or young adult is fearful, because mature dogs are more likely to show their fear through aggression. If your young dog is skittish with strangers or especially sensitive to an older household dog, monitor and intervene sooner rather than later."
So, they are like humans in that the human brain is not mature when the body is either. I have read where human brains are not mature until the late 20s or maybe even later. I'll have to say that my immature brain was a heck of a lot more fun!

Tammy, I would definitely get Tillie's thyroid checked as others have suggested. With our heavy rains since October, my guys have not gotten the exercise they get when it is nicer and Augie is putting on weight too. Finn never sits still so he is still very thin. But Augie doesn't run around as much in the house. I just had him in today to get a urine sample for his UTI recheck.
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