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your thoughts on home cooked diet vs. commerical dog food

20K views 98 replies 31 participants last post by  Colbie 
#1 ·
Hi everyone,

My havanese is a very picky eater. I have tried all sorts of dog food brands with him (wet and dry). He usually gives it a try once or twice, but after that, he is over it and he goes on a hunger strike (he once went 5 days without eating because we wouldn't give him anything else other than kibbles).

Then a month ago, I decided to just feed him a home cook diet and he loves it! He never gets bored and he cleans up the bowl. I read up on a lot of ingredients to make sure I feed him only ingredients that is good for him. A usual meal would be boiled chicken, chopped carrots, green beans (no additives anything, not even salt). Sometimes I replace the chicken with baked salmon and the vegetables with something else (canned pumpkin, sweet potatoes, bok choy, kale, spinach, broccoli, blueberries, apple) I occasionally give him fat free plain yogurt or cottage cheese for calcium.

I have been feeding him a variation of these food for about a month now and he loves it and licks his bowl clean. He also looks really good - no health issues or bathroom issues. No diarrhea ever!

I keep reading that the food needs to be complete and balanced, and I wonder whether I am feeding him a "complete and balanced" meal but what does that even mean? I look at the kibble that I got him and then the food that I made, and I am not trying to be immodest, but there is no way that kibble that sits on the shelf for months and months looks more nutritious than the natural, organic ingredients I feed him. It is like feeding a human total raisin brand all their life instead of eating a varied diet of good, healthy ingredients. (I stress varied and healthy...obviously a lot of people eat very poorly).

I am a bit skeptical of commercial dog food, simply for the fact that it is processed and made to last a REALLY Loooooonnnggggg time on the shelf - how can food like that be good for you? I also know that a lot of commercial dog food use subpar animal flesh (not that human-grade animal flesh is all that great, which is why I am a vegan). Knowing all the antibiotics and crap that goes into the meat and the worse parts go into dog food - it pretty much makes me doubt that commercial dog food is really all that great (even the premium ones).

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on homecooked vs. commercial dog food. Please share your thoughts.
 
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#36 ·
a little about the author...."Dinner PAWsible is a collection of 22 cat food recipes, 29 dog food recipes and two healthy treats based on the National Research Council requirements for dogs and cats; the same organization that commercial pet food nutritional foundations are based on. Dinner PAWsible is not only veterinarian recommended, it was co-authored by a veterinarian certified in food therapy! Dr. Cathy Alinovi DVM is trained in a variety of alternative and holistic methods including veterinary food therapy; her practice is located in central Indiana. Nutrition is the heart of every exam, curing over 80% of all problems. Co-author Susan Thixton is a leading pet food safety advocate whose website, TruthaboutPetFood.com helps to provide pet food education to a world of pet parents."
 
#38 ·
Just my two cents......I have homecooked for my dogs off and on over the years. I usually have to stop for one reason or another. I LOVE feeding my dogs real food. And I'm not trying to take away from anyone's business, but.......I have successfully raised 2 litters by weaning them to my home cooked food and they were and are fat, healthy and happy. With that said, it's not really rocket science. If you are qualified to cook for your self and your own family, you are qualified to cook for beloved pooch. I promise!! There are only a few foods that you shouldn't feed to your dog, which you can find on a google search. Just use common sense and good judgment. Feed them what you are eating. I assure you they will thrive. I'm only posting this thread to bring some balance to the consensus of using a pricey consultant. If you can afford it and it gives you more confidence, go right ahead and hire a consultant. But for those that can't afford to pay for advice, I promise you won't hurt your dog if you just feed him what you are eating. Unless you're eating at Mickey D's 3 times a day, in which case you may die before your pet. Sorry, that was inappropriate humor.
 
#42 ·
Thank you Karen!!!! I couldn't agree with you more!!! It always make me chuckle that I need professional help to home cook for my dogs, yet not a single pediatrician ever bothered to educate me on how to feed my precious children. I wasn't required to take a cooking class or attend a single lecture. Ever since a man domesticated a wolf, the dogs were fed the scraps from the table. But only since the advent of the multi million or is it billion dog food industry we have suddenly become unable to properly feed our beloved dog!
 
#39 ·
have to disagree with you Karen , . Sabine says people in general do a fair job at it but far from ideal.
 
#45 · (Edited)
"Maybe if we weren't poisoning our animals on monthly basis with vaccines and flea and heartworm treatments, we wouldn't have to have specially formulated food to fight off the illnesses and "allergies" that all the dogs seem to have today. Just saying.

Of course, Dave you know I'm not saying you shouldn't consult a nutritionist. If your pet is not well, by all means seek professional help"

I agree with what you're saying Karen, but it's not just the vacs etc that are causing issues , it's food. Most people feed poor food. My problem with Julia's remarks is that she basically is saying people dont' need to worry about what to home cook. That simple isn't true. Yes, your dog won't necessarily die from giving leftovers etc, but like I mentioned , that's a far cry from feeding a balanced and complete diet that dogs should have. Sabine gets all kinds of people who thought they knew how to home cook that found out later ,they were'nt doing it correct. Considering how important it is to feed a dog healthy food , it's a small cost to pay to get it right. Most people think, I"ll give them chicken breast lean and lots of veggies and call it a day. This won't be healthy ,. dogs don't even need veggies . \Your last statement ,is backwards. in my opinion. People should feed their dogs properly and they wouldn't have to seek a professional. And if you don't know what the nutritional requirements for dogs are, learn or find help.
 
#46 ·
My problem with Julia's remarks is that she basically is saying people dont' need to worry about what to home cook. That simple isn't true. Yes, your dog won't necessarily die from giving leftovers etc, but like I mentioned , that's a far cry from feeding a balanced and complete diet that dogs should have. Sabine gets all kinds of people who thought they knew how to home cook that found out later ,they were'nt doing it correct. Considering how important it is to feed a dog healthy food , it's a small cost to pay to get it right. Most people think, I"ll give them chicken breast lean and lots of veggies and call it a day. This won't be healthy ,. dogs don't even need veggies . Your last statement ,is backwards. in my opinion. People should feed their dogs properly and they wouldn't have to seek a professional. And if you don't know what the nutritional requirements for dogs are, learn or find help.
I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I grew up with my mom feeding our dog and cats "people food", scraps from the table, etc. Our pets weren't vaccinated, didn't go to the vet and lived to be 15+ years of age. Our huge, black russian terrier lived to be 14 or 15.
 
#48 ·
Just want to chime in my two cents - I think it's a dangerous statement to say, you don't need to pay a professional, just trust yourself and feed your dog whatever you think is right. That's a green light to not at least do proper research and attempt a somewhat balanced approach to home cooking. Someone mentioned a black Russian terrier. Now, how many people happen to have one of those dogs as a pet??? That is a very rare breed, hard to come by and expensive. I BET you, black-russian-terrier-owner, that YOUR pantry is much better stocked than the average person. To say, go ahead and homecook, don't worry, well some people (remember, there are many "lurkers" out there just reading posts), that could be white rice and fried up ground beef. I'm sure my dog would LOVE this dish with a passion, but even still it is inferior and not nearly as healthful as her high quality kibble. In my career as a professional groomer, I have come across DOZENS of poor dogs fed "home cooked" diets, many with horrible diarrhea. I'm sure those diets were not the carefully planned diets. Perhaps not everyone has to pay a consultant, but at least using careful ratios, quality ingredients, and with the guidance of their vet, can give a healthy home cooked meal to their dog.

Oh, and whoever said no one told them how to feed their children, it's called the food pyramid and it's pretty specific. Also, much of the food we feed our children such as milk and cereal are fortified with essential vitamins and minerals. There are countless diseases humans and dogs can get if they are lacking in specific vitamins and minerals. Folic acid? Essential for everyone esp growing fetuses. Vitamin B? The lack of vitamin B (I forget which one) caused one woman featured on Mystery Diagnosis years of gastrointestinal problems. Not enough calcium? You get the idea. Just think of all those poor malnourished children who do not grow as tall as what their genetics would allow. All this nutritional information is provided by science and we have the ability to at least come close to good nutrition for dogs using certain foods and supplements, by saying to just "trust yourself" because every dog is different and every owner is in a different position, I am positive will be a recipe for disaster for some dogs.
 
#49 ·
well said , thank you.
 
#50 ·
here's a quote from Sabine..."I've always fed __ food to my dog and he did just fine

While there is nothing wrong with feeding a particular food if your dog does well on it and you feel comfortable feeding it, the question is whether you have a basis of comparison and whether the formulation of the food has changed over time. I have seen the effect a better food can have on my own dog. When I adopted him from the shelter, he was a thin little puppy with a brittle coat and a rather strong "doggie odor". I didn't know better yet, fed an average quality food and thought the change in his appearance was stunning, except for the severe reactions he still showed whenever he picked up the occasional flea and got bitten before it died. He had gained weight, the odor improved and his coat was softer and shinier. I was happy and didn't think that any further improvement was possible - until he had been eating a really high quality food for about a month. His allergy to flea bites disappeared entirely, the muscle tone became much more defined, his coat even glossier, softer and most important, much, much denser. The doggie odor vanished.

If I hadn't at least given the better food a try, feeding it long enough to see results (depending on the individual dog this takes about 4-8 weeks), I would still have been convinced that my dog "did just fine" on the lesser quality food. Now I clearly see the difference between "doing just fine" and truly thriving. Every step up the "quality ladder" will bring improvements, the stray dog who used to survive mostly on garbage will do better once he gets a daily ration of even a relatively cheap food because it supplies more essential nutrients; and a dog who was fed a grocery store brand is guaranteed to improve on a better quality product as well.
 
#51 ·
You make good points as always Dave. I appreciate your insight and wisdom. I am a libra, therefore I require balance in all things, so I hope there is always room for more than one opinion here. After all, what good is a mutual admiration society, eh? (I had to throw in the "eh". I have very close friends from Canada who love to say that.) ;)
 
#53 · (Edited)
Hi Linda , I have no problem with voicing opinions. I have a problem with Julia's comments when she dismisses a profession like a pet nutritionist with statements like they are basically a waste of time and money., when it's far from the truth. People that think they know better than someone who is educated in a field usually don't, and dissuading people from seeking an expert is damaging and unproductive. I have a different opinion on her last statement ...." But only since the advent of the multi million or is it billion dog food industry we have suddenly become unable to properly feed our beloved dog " . I would venture an opinion that the vast majority of people don't know how to feed a healthy diet, or don't choose to.
 
#55 ·
Dave, I have gotten similar reactions from people at my grooming salon, such as: dogs have existed for thousands of years before professional groomers, why should I pay now for nail clipping, ear cleaning, clipping of coat, etc?

My actual response to these people (and one of them was the owner of a champion vizla) was that, before the age of modern pets, all dogs broke down into these basic categories: working dog, war dog, or companion/lap dog for royalty and aristocracy. Except for the last group, all dogs had to work to earn their keep. They herded farm animals, got rid of vermin, pulled heavy loads, guarded property and livestock, were trained as war animals, etc. They were on their feet all day and moving around. That would wear down the nails naturally, so there was no need to clip nails on the old working dogs. People complain about having to take their little dogs to groomers, well, those little lap dogs used to be pampered ladies' companions, very well cared for and much better than how today's average small dog owner keeps them. The bottom line: dogs were either extremely well kept by the wealthy, or they were working animals that suffered when they were no longer useful to people. They did not receive basic care that an owner, professional groomer, or modern veterinarian can provide. Same thing goes for diets. Dogs kept well by the wealthy got scraps of meat. Dogs owned by the poor did not have good diets and I'm sure were not healthy, robust animals. We should not romanticise the past, it was not idealic. Dogs have existed for millennia alongside humans, but just as we humans today have the medical science to know what is proper human nutrition and can diagnose illnesses caused by a nutrition imbalance, our stewardship of our animals has also evolved to better take care of them and their unique lifestyles of today. Peace.
 
#54 ·
Dave, I have 2 questions I would like to ask. The book that I posted on page 4 of this thread is written by a vet who specializes in food therapy....."little about the author...."Dinner PAWsible is a collection of 22 cat food recipes, 29 dog food recipes and two healthy treats based on the National Research Council requirements for dogs and cats; the same organization that commercial pet food nutritional foundations are based on. Dinner PAWsible is not only veterinarian recommended, it was co-authored by a veterinarian certified in food therapy! Dr. Cathy Alinovi DVM is trained in a variety of alternative and holistic methods including veterinary food therapy; her practice is located in central Indiana. Nutrition is the heart of every exam, curing over 80% of all problems." The book's focus is cooking a wide variety of healthy foods that are appropriate for dogs (and cats/separate recipes). Now,my questions....Why would every dog need a personalized diet if they are healthy? And what are Sabine's qualifications?
 
#56 ·
with regard to your last two questions. why a personalized diet., ? not a necessity but every dog is different, different as to what it can tolerate , different tastes, different energy levels, . The biggest reason is that nutritionists at least some of them know what the healthy foods are, good nutritionists, in my opinion , just like vets, are not trying to sell something . And the question is, how do you really know what is healthy or whether your dog is healthy. difference between surviving and thriving. As to the last question , here's her site http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main
 
#60 ·
Interesting discussion here. Linda, Julia, and Nancy -- for what it's worth, I have had many of the same thoughts and questions you have, yet still chose to consult with Sabine for my healthy dog. As I struggled to decide on the optimal feeding plan for my dog, and read all of the stuff I could on this forum and other sites, at first I strongly resisted the idea of hiring a nutrition consultant for my dog. I'm certain that it's not "necessary", though it's not necessary that I buy him all of the toys and treats I do, either. After reading and thinking about it, reading what Sabine had to say on her website, and investigating other dog nutritionists, here's what I came up with. First, I realized that I thought her rates were very fair and reasonable compared to the time and thought she puts into it. Two, I decided that I wanted as much information as I could get about how to help my dog towards optimal health, and that Sabine sounded like a great resource to have on board. I paid for the initial consult plus 4 weeks of follow up. I think it was $145 for that -- I'm too lazy to look it up right now -- whatever it was to me it was worth it, just to get her input as to what would be a good diet for my dog. I wanted primarily home cooked supplemented w/kibble for convenience. She asks for a lot of info, and takes into account what the dog likes, what foods I want to use, etc, and formulates a diet. I only had a few questions afterwards, and she answered very thoughtfully and at length. At the same time.... I, too, question the need for such precision with our dogs' diets, and actually I do not adhere strictly to the diet she devised. Just like with my diet, I know pretty much what foods I like that are good for me, and more or less the balance they should be in, but definitely do not eat like that all the time, just as much as I can. I do the same with Benjamin, i.e. feed him primarily what Sabine suggested, but vary it a bit as well. Maybe it's silly or maybe it's not to pay a canine nutritionist, but my dog is worth the world to me, and he is at my mercy in terms of what he eats. I don't take what Sabine says as gospel, just think that she's a valuable resource and wanted her opinion. I am still reading and thinking, and of course observing my dog, and am open to changing my mind about what to feed if it seems right to do so.

Well, sorry for the rambling run on paragraph, but I wanted to put this out there.
 
#61 ·
Just wanted to add a few thoughts. The word "necessary" is so funny. Technically, all that is necessary for human survival are air, water, food, and some kind of shelter from the elements, but most of us think of things such as cars, internet service, and cell phones as also being necessities. Well, I do tend to overthink things, so please bear with me. After I got my puppy last year and fell in love with him immediately, I became alarmed about all of the confusing info about what to feed, and especially about all of the recalls and problems with even some very high end and expensive pet foods. Even though human food and in fact the whole freaking planet itself are becoming toxic and polluted to a frightening extent, it seemed to me that the pet food industry was particularly corrupt and not adequately regulated, and I just felt that I wanted some help and guidance maneuvering through all of the information. So for me, for my mental well being, consulting with someone (I chose Sabine) was a necessity. I have been very happy with her, both with the explanations she's provided and with her obvious passion for her work.

Also... I am never impressed with arguments about how things have been for thousands of years. As atsilvers (sorry not sure of real name) so eloquently pointed out, the past was not all that rosy! I'm still not convinced about the greatness of a raw diet, even if I did want to deal with my dog dragging raw germy meat all around my wall to wall carpeting, since the way I figure it our dogs have been more recently evolving to eat cooked table scraps and commercial pet foods. It is really easy to romanticize and idealize things when it comes to our pets. I know that Sabine is big on raw, and there are good arguments on both sides. I have actually given my dog some raw meaty bones, and he likes them but it's a pain because we have to be outside and not in any grass that was mowed recently or else he is eating a RMB that looks like it was dredged in grass clippings. LOL. Anyway... I do think that it may be more important to be aware of nutrition imbalances with dogs than with humans, for this reason. Dogs are much smaller -- well Havanese are, at any rate -- so naturally have a smaller daily caloric intake. Therefore, there is less wiggle room in terms of being able to get an adequate amount of nutrients. In other words, humans might be able to get most of the nutrients they need in a day and still be able to eat a little "junk food" without gaining weight, but dogs not so much. On the other hand... well, plenty of humans seem to have weight problems... never mind! Sorry again for the rambling, it's just that I have so many thoughts about the subject and would rather express them then take the time to edit as if for an academic article. If it's not already obvious, my main point is that I do think it's important to try to provide a nutritionally balanced diet for our dogs, since that will give them the best chance to lead long healthy lives. Ironically... realizing this has inspired me to eat better myself, because if he outlives me who will take care of him? :)
 
#63 ·
Thanks for that. Love your passion for your dog.
 
#66 ·
Thanks Eileen! It was good to hear about your experience with Sabine. We all obviously love our havanese and want the best for them! And as you said about the raw (good arguments on both sides) the experts don't even agree! Grain, no grain, high protein is good, high protein is bad...ect. No one is ever right about everything all the time. And in the scientific community experts are always changing...which means quite often they figure out that what they have been saying is wrong. We would all be smart to never blindly follow anyone....not even the experts. I choose to follow the advice of a veterinarian certified in food therapy. Dr. Cathy Alinovi DVM is trained in a variety of alternative and holistic methods including veterinary food therapy. But as you do with Sabine, I use it as an "outline". We should be careful also not to elevate these experts to a position of unquestioned authority over our pets health. I am the one who lives with my dogs and knows if they are thriving are not. And just for the record, I grew up with very oridinary dogs (labs, german shepherds, mutts...) My mom was/is a great southern cook and our dogs ate table scraps and nothing else. They also only received rabies shots. No heartworm meds no flea preventatives. And they thrived into old age!! Just saying....
 
#68 ·
[/QUOTE] Oh, and whoever said no one told them how to feed their children, it's called the food pyramid and it's pretty specific. s.[/QUOTE]

I know I should shut up, I know I've probably annoyed people already, but since I have bothered to read a mountain of research on the subject (re humans, but much of it is relevant for any mammal) I simply can't bring myself to let the 'food pyramid' remark go unchallenged; the food pyramid is a disaster and the cause of more ill health and obesity amongst humans than probably any other factor in our lives. I entreat anyone who wants to be healthy to get over the fat-phobia-food-pyramid way of thinking. It is based on zero research and is a scandal.
There. THAT'LL put the cat among the Havanese pigeons!
 
#69 ·
Oh, and whoever said no one told them how to feed their children, it's called the food pyramid and it's pretty specific. s.[/QUOTE]

I know I should shut up, I know I've probably annoyed people already, but since I have bothered to read a mountain of research on the subject (re humans, but much of it is relevant for any mammal) I simply can't bring myself to let the 'food pyramid' remark go unchallenged; the food pyramid is a disaster and the cause of more ill health and obesity amongst humans than probably any other factor in our lives. I entreat anyone who wants to be healthy to get over the fat-phobia-food-pyramid way of thinking. It is based on zero research and is a scandal.
There. THAT'LL put the cat among the Havanese pigeons![/QUOTE]

I completely agree with Lalla and need to chime in with my own 2 cents.
Most of the conventional food "wisdom" like the food pyramid is nothing more than good marketing. Things like "milk will do your body good" is actually just really good marketing done by the dairy industry - not only will milk doesn't do your body good, looking at scientific research - countries with the highest consumption of dairy products actually has the highest rates of osteoporosis. Also, all these marketing on getting your protein is stupid - Have you ever heard of protein deficiency in the USA or anywhere where people get enough to eat? Protein deficiency only happens in countries that are very poor and they just don't have enough to eat like some places in Africa. The meat industry also does a really good job marketing to make you think that you can only get enough protein from eating meat - that is so wrong! A serving of brocolli has more protein than a serving of steak - you can get protein from so many food groups - not just meat! Quinoa also gives you all the protein you will need. You also don't need as much protein as you think you do. I think a lot of people are not educated enough when it comes to food and are mostly persuaded by giant companies' good marketing.

Also, by the way, if our school wants to feed our kids better, then maybe they need to stop serving them cheeseburgers and french fries during lunch, but of course, they are in cohorts with the evil giant food companies, who gives them the cheap prices. People, there is no such thing as cheap food. Cheap food is basically bad food, otherwise it won't be cheap. Cheap food means higher healthcare eventually. Please do your research on food for humans as well as your dogs.
 
#71 ·
Diet makes a huge difference

This thread is fascinating and so helpful. My 11 month old Hav is kinda picky and she gets dry kibble with little treats for training - homemade bread is her fav and I just give tiny little pieces of it.

We had a cat from my parents' farm for about 3 months before we returned it. My folks had cats for mousing, so they got raw food regularly but the folks also put out table scraps for them, too, and always fresh water. Farm cats are "working cats" as opposed to pets, still loved but important if you have any kind of grain farm. Anyway, the cat we had in our home for 3 months was put on a dry cat food quality vet diet. When we returned her, her litter mates were about half her size, less glossy coats. Point, raw isn't necessarily better. Content is critical. Not that I am an expert at all, ha!

Still thinking about my Hav. She was the runt of her littler, her mom was 8#, dad was 9#, and at 11 mo she is 8#, so a little girl. She is also an alpha... she has learned that I am HER alpha though, and she is perfect for me. She is somewhat picky and will not eat if she doesn't like her food. She does love people food and I didn't think I should start down that road when I'm not able to do it every day.

I really appreciate all the shares and insights here! Thank you!
 
#72 ·
Ok, I can't resist commenting on this from mswhav, "countries with the highest consumption of dairy products actually has the highest rates of osteoporosis..." That is a true statement. What is not included is the fact that this is all processed milk. When it is homogenized, the molecules are actually larger and will not digest the normal way through the stomach and then eventual elimination but because of the molecular change, it ends up lining your vessles, thus osteoporosis. Solution is to drink raw milk. It isn't the milk's fault, it's man's processing of it. How does that cross over to the foods we feed our little Hav's?
 
#74 ·
I rather eat good food every meal and die a few years early instead of eating salad everyday and have a long life. I'm sure my dog feel the same way. :( I'm so terrible.

The only bad thing I've seen so far with feeding my dog human food is he's getting fat :(
Being fat is DEFINITELY not healthy for your dog, and it's completely within our power to control Cut down on the amount he's getting, and he'll lose weight! :)
 
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