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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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Question Food allergy ? ingredient fish grain free

so, just a what if...
IF my Harry is allergic to his food, and it is a fish protein grain free, WHAT could be an allergen in the food ? If it doesn't clear up should I try their new formula, list below with salmon, but the first ingredient is rice, and it has pretty low protein, but is an allergy formula? Just wondering what you all think out there.

Currently on -
No Meat By-products, No Wheat or Wheat Gluten, No Soy, No Dairy, No Corn, No Artificial Colors, Flavors or Preservatives

Whitefish, Whitefish Meal, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Potatoes, Dried Ground Potato, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Pea Fiber, Tomato Pomace, Natural Fish Flavor, Flaxseed, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Kale, Broccoli, Spinach, Parsley, Apples, Blueberries, Vitamins & Minerals, Choline Chloride, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Products, Rosemary Extract.

No Meat By-products, No Wheat or Wheat Gluten, No Soy, No Dairy, No Corn, No Artificial Colors, Flavors or Preservatives

Allergy formula-
Ground Rice, Salmon, Salmon Meal, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Tomato Pomace, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Natural Fish Flavor, Vitamins [Vitamin E Supplement, Beta-Carotene, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid], Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite], Choline Chloride, Taurine.

This is a naturally preserved product.

Guaranteed Analysis

Crude Protein
Not Less Than
20.0%

Crude Fat
Not Less Than
12.0%

Crude Fiber
Not More Than
3.0%

Moisture
Not More Than
11.0%

Lycopene* Not Less Than 0.20 mg/kg
Omega 6 Fatty Acids*
Not Less Than
1.75%

Omega 3 Fatty Acids*
Not Less Than
0.75%

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 06:47 PM
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You might want to discuss an elimination diet with your vet. You would Harry on a very strict diet of two items - something he's never had before (which, if you're like me is tough since I'd tried every food out there). We tried starting Tess with ostrich meat and oatmeal (if Harry hasn't had venison or something like that you could do that.) Those are the only two items Harry would be allowed for at least 4-6 weeks. I couldn't get Tess to eat the ostrich & oatmeal combination (nor ostrich and peas) so we ended up doing a perscription, ultra allergen food with ostrich for treats. If he eats anything else but those two items (including oral heartworm) you have to start the process over again. This isn't a balanced diet but you don't need to worry about that since it's not long term

After 4-6 weeks, any food allergies should be out of Harry's system. If there's no change in his symptoms, he doesn't have food allergies. If his symptoms improve dramatically, he does have food allergies and then you would start the slow process of introducing one ingredient at a time, each for at least two weeks before giving the next one to determine which foods he's allergic to.

Tess has been on an elimination diet for eight months as we tried to get the environmental allergies under control.

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Wow- 4-6 weeks?
Now, I wonder if a dog can be on a food and then one day develop an allergy to it. Does a Dog NOT get allergies to things until they are a certain age, like I know with kids they say about 2 years old is when if there is an allergy it starts to show....

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 08:16 PM
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I don't know about whether a dog has to be a certain age. I didn't get Tess until she was 5 years old so I'm not sure when she developed them. I do know allergies can be genetic so maybe possible to show symptoms at a very early age?

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 08:27 PM
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Dogs can develop allergies to thing they have been eating because they eat the same thing day In and out. Has Harry been on the fish formula only? Peopple suspect the grains and the proteins. But it could be other ingredients too. If hou havn't I would try a very simple formula food like California Naturals. Or you could try raw? Before I tried elimination. You really have to have a ton of patience for that ( like Jill) I know Jasper was very itchy as a pup. Trial and error and reading every label and co
paring made me suspect Flax seed. Good news is he seems to have grown out of it.




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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 09:38 PM
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You didn't say what the symptoms were. It could be intolerence instead of allergy. Having a reaction of loose stools would be an intolerant reaction, but not an allergic reaction. Allergies can start at a very young age, usually they don't, but with my girl - there were from the beginning, but it's not going to happen on the first day. True allergies can be to anything - even a particular form of vitamin, but this would be much rarer. Rice, any time of true grain, are more frequent allergens.

If the dog has been having an allergic reaction (a true allergy) to another food, then just switching to a new food is likely to cause the new food to become an allergy as well simply b/c the new food is introduced while the gut is still inflammed. It is for this reason that vets suggest a 'sacrificial' food to transition to for the first 2-3 months while they work on getting the gut to heal (probiotics, etc). This 'sacrificial' food is one picked out with the knowledge that the ingredients used will likely never be able to be fed again, in a truely allergic dog. For example, I chose the new hydrolyzed protein foods b/c I knew I wouldn't want to stay on those for a lifetime, but I used it to help heal the gut before starting the challenging section of a very strict true elimination diet.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-14-2009, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Harry has been on grain free fish since he was around 6-9 months due to bloody diarehha, it was the only thing that his stomach seemed to tolerate really well. He was a year old in oct and I noticed he slowly started to itch around aug, bt assumed it was just typical bugs, etc....
Anyway not thinking much about it I can't remember EXACTLY when but around sept/oct I slowly started switching him to a grain fish food. The itching got worse, but not necessarily because of the new food.
Anyway, I am thinking that maybe when this all started it was bugs and food??? But now I think I have gotten rid of any potential bugs eventhough I never found anything on him and that it may just be the food, I have gone back to the grain free fish since originally it is what he did good on, it hasn't been 6 weeks yet, so am still holding out hope that it is not the food.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-14-2009, 10:16 AM
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also, do you give Harry some additional fish oil? Sea Pet 200 is what our nutritionist reccommended. Also, does he have any dermatitis...red bumps or scaly patches...or is he just itchy. could it just be dry skin? the fish oil would help with that.




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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-14-2009, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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His skin is not flaky or dry, or filled with red bumps.
His ears get inflamed throughout the day, have some scabs, bleed a little, and he has one spot on his rear foot which he has chewed the fur off of and it was getting irritated with a small scab. I am putting the peace collidol spray on his ears and the sore on skin spot on his back foot.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-14-2009, 08:37 PM
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You should not stay on one food for long times. I prefer to rotate my food allergic girl at least every 3 weeks, if not more often. There is no set rule, but the ear problem makes me think food allergies, and the foot problem makes me think flea issues.

I suggest getting a book to keep notes on - now is a good time to visit Petco and get a breed book weekly calendar. It has pictures on one side, and the 7 days on the other side where you can make notes. Keep these books in storage for reference in later years. I make notes of food changes, when I give meds, and highlight in orange any notable responses.

By going back the last two years, I discovered that my food allergic girl would get really bad at the first of June. She is highly flea allergic to their saliva. For example, just recently I forgot to give her meds to her and we went 7 weeks between them. So, she developed a hot spot, and after I gave the meds, the hot spot was still bad for another 3 weeks. It wasn't healed in that time, but continued to be worse b/c it takes about that long for the allergic response to make it's way out thru the skin.

You would never guess my girl has fleas b/c no matter how much you comb her, you will not find a single, solitary sign of fleas. No dirt, no blood, no fleas. Nada. That is b/c dogs that are allergic to fleas spend so much time grooming themselves that they remove the evidence. For us, I have to be diligent about giving her a med for fleas every month. This way I can be more accurate about what food allergies she has. I have in the past assumed she had a particular allergy to a particular item, when I believe it was really fleas. Dogs will sometimes do that chararistic move where they are 'chewing' up and down on their legs or rear end. That is definately a flea biting them.

By the way, dogs can be allergic to anything. For example, my girl is not only allergic to grains, but also eggs (which is in alot of foods), and I strongly suspect she is allergic to fish oil, based on responses she had on two different occasions. However, having said that, I now realize that she wasn't on consistent flea meds at that time, so I will challenge again with fish oil and see if I get a negative response next time.

It's a puzzle, but what I have learned is to keep good notes for reviewing, and not to assume that it's only food (at least it wasn't in our case. I knew she was allergic to fleas, but I did not realize how very bad her responses were to it).
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