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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-18-2017, 07:25 AM Thread Starter
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vet venting and vaccine question

So, Perry's rabies shot was due so I made a vet appointment and she came over yesterday. I had specifically asked only for the rabies (but didn't specifically say that I did NOT want any of the others), and only saw her sticking the syringe into 1 vial, but when she was filling out the paperwork there so goes ticking all of the DHLPP stuff too. Asked her about it and she had decided that he should get them too, better to have them all the same time, etc. I am so sick of vets deciding that they know what he needs despite what I tell them.

This is on top of a different vet who, in April when I was looking for bordatella told me that he had it, and then proceeded to give him the DHLPP ("it does the same thing" - uh no, it's not the same thing smh!) Got rid of that vet, but I like this vet otherwise so will probably keep her, plus I think I made her feel bad for not paying close enough attention to what was in his passport already.

I am kicking myself because I wasn't being vigilant enough -but the overall result is that he's 18 months and has had DHLPP 3 times already.

So, questions - 1)any idea of what potential problems I'm looking at (he didn't react at all yesterday so I know we're out of the immediate danger period - but long term effects)? (2)I know someone (Dave?) posted info on getting the lepto titer but I can't find it in the posts, could you resend (my vet says she doesn't do it, but maybe if I gave her the lab info). (3) does anyone know if they can tier for parainfluenza as well (I think my vet will do distemper and parvo and maybe hep)?
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-18-2017, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Melissa Brill View Post
So, Perry's rabies shot was due so I made a vet appointment and she came over yesterday. I had specifically asked only for the rabies (but didn't specifically say that I did NOT want any of the others), and only saw her sticking the syringe into 1 vial, but when she was filling out the paperwork there so goes ticking all of the DHLPP stuff too. Asked her about it and she had decided that he should get them too, better to have them all the same time, etc. I am so sick of vets deciding that they know what he needs despite what I tell them.

This is on top of a different vet who, in April when I was looking for bordatella told me that he had it, and then proceeded to give him the DHLPP ("it does the same thing" - uh no, it's not the same thing smh!) Got rid of that vet, but I like this vet otherwise so will probably keep her, plus I think I made her feel bad for not paying close enough attention to what was in his passport already.

I am kicking myself because I wasn't being vigilant enough -but the overall result is that he's 18 months and has had DHLPP 3 times already.

So, questions - 1)any idea of what potential problems I'm looking at (he didn't react at all yesterday so I know we're out of the immediate danger period - but long term effects)? (2)I know someone (Dave?) posted info on getting the lepto titer but I can't find it in the posts, could you resend (my vet says she doesn't do it, but maybe if I gave her the lab info). (3) does anyone know if they can tier for parainfluenza as well (I think my vet will do distemper and parvo and maybe hep)?
Ugh, so he got DHLPP & Rabies on the same day? I don't want to upset you further, but I've always been told that Havanese should not be vaccinated for Lepto, and they should never receive multiple vaccines + Rabies on the same day. They should be spaced 4 weeks apart. I know you live outside the US so your vaccination needs may be different than ours here, but getting their booster shots and rabies shots should be done a month apart. As for titering for Lepto, I'm not sure if they titer for that. IIRC it may not provide coverage for very long. I've never given my Havs lepto or combo vaccines, I follow Dr. Dodds protocol my vet knew this and agreed upfront.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-18-2017, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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Ugh, so he got DHLPP & Rabies on the same day? I don't want to upset you further, but I've always been told that Havanese should not be vaccinated for Lepto, and they should never receive multiple vaccines + Rabies on the same day. They should be spaced 4 weeks apart. I know you live outside the US so your vaccination needs may be different than ours here, but getting their booster shots and rabies shots should be done a month apart. As for titering for Lepto, I'm not sure if they titer for that. IIRC it may not provide coverage for very long. I've never given my Havs lepto or combo vaccines, I follow Dr. Dodds protocol my vet knew this and agreed upfront.
Well, I obviously was not planning on getting rabies and DHLPP in the same day ... and for us Lepto is not optional - it's a requirement for living in Uganda. On the titer, I guess worse case scenario we can get the titer for the rest and then just have to do the lepto once a year.

Regarding Havanese not being vaccinated for lepto - does anyone have a reference to a scientific study on this? If there is one perhaps I can get my vet to write a letter that says he can't have any more and maybe that will work.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-18-2017, 09:21 AM
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Well, I obviously was not planning on getting rabies and DHLPP in the same day ... and for us Lepto is not optional - it's a requirement for living in Uganda. On the titer, I guess worse case scenario we can get the titer for the rest and then just have to do the lepto once a year.

Regarding Havanese not being vaccinated for lepto - does anyone have a reference to a scientific study on this? If there is one perhaps I can get my vet to write a letter that says he can't have any more and maybe that will work.

Sorry Melissa, my response may have come off wrong. I know you were not planning on it, I was sharing your frustration at the way your vet handled it. I remembered that you were outside the US, if Lepto is mandatory there then there is not much you can do. There are members here that have had their vets pressure them into Lepto where it is not mandatory.

I will look for the info my breeder provided me about Lepto and Coronavirus vaccines and see what I can come up with. In the meantime @krandall has posted about homeopathic support treatments that can be given after vaccines. IIRC one is Thuja, it can be purchased on Amazon.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-18-2017, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Melissa Brill View Post
Well, I obviously was not planning on getting rabies and DHLPP in the same day ... and for us Lepto is not optional - it's a requirement for living in Uganda. On the titer, I guess worse case scenario we can get the titer for the rest and then just have to do the lepto once a year.

Regarding Havanese not being vaccinated for lepto - does anyone have a reference to a scientific study on this? If there is one perhaps I can get my vet to write a letter that says he can't have any more and maybe that will work.
Melissa - I do Lepto. Loki has had it 2x with no ill effects. As you know we live in Old Town Alexandria which can be rat infested given its proximity to the Potomac and the restaurants along King Street. Our vet suggests that all dogs in Old Town and Georgetown get the Lepto vaccines for that reason. Also, I know of 3 dogs that have died of Lepto in Old Town. When I talked to our breeder about it she agreed. I only tell you because Lepto is controversial but I went the other way taking all the circumstances into account.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-18-2017, 10:28 AM
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-18-2017, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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treatments

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I will look for the info my breeder provided me about Lepto and Coronavirus vaccines and see what I can come up with. In the meantime @krandall has posted about homeopathic support treatments that can be given after vaccines. IIRC one is Thuja, it can be purchased on Amazon.
Does anyone know if you can use the essential oils rather than the homeopathic? If so, at what dose?
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-19-2017, 07:49 AM
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We were also convinced by our vet here in Minnesota that Shama should have the lepto vaccine based on cases of lepto that have occured in Minnesota. I've been meaning to add to my post on that topic. In my post, I said there hadn't been cases of lepto in Minnesota, but that was in humans. My vet assured me that cases do regularly occur in dogs. So Shama, like Loki, has had the lepto vaccination twice in her life with no noticable effects. Sorry to hear about your experience.

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-19-2017, 10:29 AM
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We were also convinced by our vet here in Minnesota that Shama should have the lepto vaccine based on cases of lepto that have occured in Minnesota. I've been meaning to add to my post on that topic. In my post, I said there hadn't been cases of lepto in Minnesota, but that was in humans. My vet assured me that cases do regularly occur in dogs. So Shama, like Loki, has had the lepto vaccination twice in her life with no noticable effects. Sorry to hear about your experience.
The problem is, according to Dr. Dodds, vey, VERY few of these "Lepto cases" are actually confirmed by testing. Vets just label it Lepto based on symptoms... Especially if there is organ failure and the animal dies. But these symptoms can also be the sign of toxicity from a number of sources, and also some other diseases. AND, having the Lepto vaccine is NOT even CLOSE to 100% effective against the disease. So people think their dog "couldn't possibly have Lepto", and don't seek help soon enough if the dog really DOES have the disease. Those dogs, because they aren't treated promptly, are often the ones that die.

I know that neither you are Loki's mom are likely to be in that category, though... I know you are both on top of things, and would get your dogs to the vet immediately, if they were ill.


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