Distemper Parv vaccine and bordetella - Page 4 - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #31 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 11:43 AM
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I know you can't blame the tumors on the vaccine. This poor boy had gotten quite sick 3 years prior with pancreatitis. His liver enzymes were off the charts. Same vet said that he would not survive more than a couple days. He recovered after taking a milk thistle supplement. I could not prove the vaccine connection but it followed his vaccinations.
Everyone marveled at how great he was doing as he approached 15, including the vet and his longtime groomer(who saw him 2 days before the vaccines). He was beautiful, lively and eating well. I was thankful for every day he was with and thought he might live to be 18 like my previous Bichon did.
Proving what caused a health problem is next to impossible. The coincidence seemed probable to me.
Shadow(my Havanese) will likely be my last dog unless I get him a friend. Romeo did teach me a lot. I have learned a lot over the years of dog ownership and need to learn more.
I am thankful to everyone here who shares their insights and experience with others!
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post #32 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 03:17 PM
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I know you can't blame the tumors on the vaccine. This poor boy had gotten quite sick 3 years prior with pancreatitis. His liver enzymes were off the charts. Same vet said that he would not survive more than a couple days. He recovered after taking a milk thistle supplement. I could not prove the vaccine connection but it followed his vaccinations.
Everyone marveled at how great he was doing as he approached 15, including the vet and his longtime groomer(who saw him 2 days before the vaccines). He was beautiful, lively and eating well. I was thankful for every day he was with and thought he might live to be 18 like my previous Bichon did.
Proving what caused a health problem is next to impossible. The coincidence seemed probable to me.
Shadow(my Havanese) will likely be my last dog unless I get him a friend. Romeo did teach me a lot. I have learned a lot over the years of dog ownership and need to learn more.
I am thankful to everyone here who shares their insights and experience with others!
I think the reason vaccine adverse events are so under reported is because there is no real way to know for sure if the vaccines caused it or it is coincidental. However, sometimes the vet blows you off when you report something. My yorkie got a lump the size of my fist when he had a rabies shot. I was told this was normal. In your case, it does sound like the vaccine pushed him over the edge. Regardless, the vet should never have vaccinated him based upon his age and with his health conditions. My friend has a 3 pound 14 year old who the vet just vaccinated for both Lepto and rabies at the same time! She did not even want the Lepto shot and he said he did it to ďprotect his staffĒ since Lepto is transmittable to humans! The yorkie now has hypothyroidism and bad skin infections...I do not think this is coincidental. I know good vets exist however there are lots of bad ones too. I hope Shadow has a long and happy life! We are all learning and trying to become better pet parents.
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post #33 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 02:01 AM
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There is absolutely no question in my mind (in hindsight) that my puppyís on and off diarrhea his first year was because of Heartguard plus. At least twice he had received it within a week of landing in the vetís office and when I mentioned it to the vet (not our usual vet) he didnít even try to hide his eye roll. So the next time I was almost embarrassed to mention it and didnít press the issue as I should have. Thereís a very good chance the problem is the other ingredients in the chew, or the combination of worming meds, but we werenít able to have a real discussion about this because of the dynamic that was created. I think the most important thing in a vet are those basic communication skills for this reason. The vet could be the most skilled in the world, but if your communication styles donít mesh at all, whatís the point? Information will become lost. A vet doesnít necessarily have to be on the cutting edge of all the new research - just willing to listen and be open to considering it. If you feel like that is your vet, then I think youíre in a good place. Research what you can, get feedback from your vet, and collaborate.

I didnít know there is a heart worm preventative that is safer for Havanese, thank you for posting that, Karen. Fortunately we live in a dry climate, so we are going with testing for now, but we might need to reconsider preventatives at some point.

I have to reiterate along with others, donít be so hard on yourself!
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post #34 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 09:45 AM
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There is absolutely no question in my mind (in hindsight) that my puppyís on and off diarrhea his first year was because of Heartguard plus. At least twice he had received it within a week of landing in the vetís office and when I mentioned it to the vet (not our usual vet) he didnít even try to hide his eye roll. So the next time I was almost embarrassed to mention it and didnít press the issue as I should have. Thereís a very good chance the problem is the other ingredients in the chew, or the combination of worming meds, but we werenít able to have a real discussion about this because of the dynamic that was created. I think the most important thing in a vet are those basic communication skills for this reason. The vet could be the most skilled in the world, but if your communication styles donít mesh at all, whatís the point? Information will become lost. A vet doesnít necessarily have to be on the cutting edge of all the new research - just willing to listen and be open to considering it. If you feel like that is your vet, then I think youíre in a good place. Research what you can, get feedback from your vet, and collaborate.

I didnít know there is a heartworm preventative that is safer for Havanese, thank you for posting that, Karen. Fortunately we live in a dry climate, so we are going with testing for now, but we might need to reconsider preventatives at some point.

I have to reiterate along with others, donít be so hard on yourself!
We did use Heartgard for the period of time when Interceptor was off the market in the US (the factory here in the US burned down, and has since been rebuilt) and didn't have a problem with it. But since we DO live in an area where heartworm IS a problem in the warm months, (especially with all the rescue dogs brought up from the deep south, who ALL come up infected with Heartworm!) AND we have a solid track record of "no problems" with Interceptor, both with my personal dogs and with dogs in my dogs' bloodlines, so I prefer to stick with the "known" product.

I agree completely with your assessment of vets and their demeanor. The local vet that we first used for the dogs, and continued to use for our cat until her death, was very "traditional", but he also was very open to listening to what I had to say, and considering my input. He was completely willing to work with the alternative medicine vet when Snowbelle (the cat) needed low-level laser treatments for her arthritis in her old age. The local practice didn't offer this, so she went up to our integrative practice for her treatments, and they coordinated treatment with the local practice for everything else. THEY told ME that they didn't want to vaccinate her anymore when she was about 12, even though she lived to 17. (except for Rabies, since she was an in and outdoor cat, so Rabies was a bigger danger for her. But again, on a 3 year rotation, she only got that once during that period)

I think it was foolish for your vet not to listen to you about your concerns about your pup's reaction to the Heartgard. ANY animal (or human) can have a one-off reaction to ANY substance. It doesn't have to be common, and the vet doesn't have to have ever seen it before. If you only see an animal get sick ONCE after taking a specific medication, and it's mild, you might not want to jump to the conclusion that it was the med. When it continues to happen... It's kind of silly not to make the connection!
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post #35 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 10:12 AM
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To add to what EvaE1izabeth and Karen said, here is a great article written by a vet on red flags to look for that it is time to switch vets.

Five Red Flag Indicators That It?s Time to Find a New Vet ? Spot Speaks

With regard to heartworm, I have also opted for more frequent testing for both worms and microfilia as explained in the following article. Note that most vets test for adult worms only.

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.co...ouldnt-either/

With regard to flea, tick and heartworm meds I think we need to remember that they are all basically poisons and are not always the lesser of two evils, depending upon your dog and situation. Although Mia has not had any horrible reactions to heartworm meds, she is lethargic and off when on them. I used to think it was because of heat and humidity but realized it was heartworm meds.
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