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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-17-2011, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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Skin problems...

My dog Kahlua was born chocolate and white. When she was about a year old she started to silver out. About age 2 she developed a skin problem but only on the chocolate/silver parts of her and her skin just seems to peel off. Hair will not grow in this area. Skin also falls off in chunks around her nose and eyes. We have done so much to figure out this problem and no vet can figure it out. Her litter-mate who also happened to be chocolate and white and the chocolate silvered out as he got a little older now has the same skin problems. I was just wondering if anyone else who owns a Havanese that has blue or silver markings has the same problems.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-17-2011, 07:22 PM
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Gosh...That sounds painful! I assume she been to a doggie dermatologist?? Skin scrapings and blood tests ?? I hope somebody can figure out the mystery!

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-17-2011, 07:34 PM
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Karens, You really need to take your pup to a specialist at a major teaching hospital in your state. It just may be an allergy that has gotten out of control. I guess they have ruled out Sarcoptic mites, Demodex mites, and chiggers? Allergys can be very complex and lately I'm am posting about them I have an older dog that has had allergy testing years ago at 3, after that he under went 2yr of treatment and after that he would still have some seasonal trouble but we could easily manage it. Also he has food intolarence to Wheat, weat gluten and now days corn. Only 10 percent of allergys in dogs are food based. Dogs do not act like we do they do however, sneeze, lick their paws, itch, chew, rub their faces, many have constant ear infections also their coat quality over time will suffer;the coat can look greasy even after a bath and even if the skin is dry. Usually if the allergy is so bad the dog is distressed most vets will put them on some form of steroid to clear it up at least for a time, also if it is mites and they are but on this treatment the mites it will get worse and not better.

Because it is happening to another dog from the same litter that could point to Dermodex mites and they are passed from the mother and she should not be bred. My neighbor has bought two Shih Tzus from the same breeder and both have had it. This is generally not a problem with good breeders but happens with back yard breeders and pet store dogs. The dog generally goes on medication for the rest of its life.

Some forms of skin cancer in dog act this way on the nose of light colored dogs that have been in the sun. Usually those dogs are older.

Some problems just require a specialist it costs less in the long run it is very hard to live with a dog that chews and itches it must be even worse for the dog. I know this probably does not help much but it is something to think about.

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-17-2011, 08:37 PM
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I don't know anything about it but I think Robbie has given you very good advice and certainly some things to check into. I hope this can be resolved for you and your poor baby.

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-18-2011, 06:25 AM Thread Starter
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We have done pretty much everything we can. Skin biopsies, skin punches, hair follicles have been sent in to Michigan State. Everything has come back normal, even the allergy testing. It really does seem painful, but she doesn't scratch at it. It's basically like the skin is dead and just falls off in clumps, but the skin underneath is the same, just scaly and dry, but like I said she doesn't have it on the white parts of her. This is the first time in our 12 years of breeding this has happened. I also own her father and he doesn't have the skin problem. The mother of Kahlua doesn't have any problems either, but has been spayed to prevent this from occurring again, same with Kahlua. She has been on zinc for two months now and the vet said that we should start seeing results in the first month but nothing has happened yet, so we will keep trying and trying until we figure out what this is, because if it does have anything to do with the blue gene, we can look out for it in the future.

Last edited by karens.2008; 02-18-2011 at 06:25 AM. Reason: couldn't fit picture
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-18-2011, 10:49 AM
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Did they test for Sebaceaus Adentis I don't know if the spelling is right it right Some ware on our forum you can look it up and see pictures I have been trying to cut and past it for you but am having problems http://janizonahavanese.com/SA.html I found it

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-18-2011, 11:52 AM
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Karens, Having things done by your local vet and then sending them to Michigan state vet school is not the same. Most vets send things out it is to expensive for them to have all of the equiptment. A specialist at a teaching school sees hundred of dogs with skin problems. Michigan State has a very nice dermatology department and since you have done so much testing your vet can send that over so it does not have to be done again, also most vet schools will not see a dog in dermmatology unless they have the mite testing results and scabies are very hard to see, so sometimes this is done over. When they start doing skin biopsies they are generally not look for an allergy they are looking for a cancer.

As for the Blue Gene I personally do not believe the Blue gene dogs have any thing differrent, and it is not fair to scare pet owners as most blue dogs have went to pet homes for years. The whole blue gene thing is more about changing things and letting them be shown. In order to prove that Blue dogs have more problems in them then the general Havanese population will take years. If you are concerned about this you should get in contact with someone in the Havanese Club of America they have a health section. I know this is a hot debate among Breeders and is a very charged issue. Also blue dogs are not always blue they will have a blue nose and many Havs silver out.

The best thing you can do is go to a specialist as I have said before, they see so many more dogs then our local vets also the dogs they see often have unusual things and are in bad shape by the time they get there. Honestly somethings they have to open the dog up to see and even with that they may not be able to cure it. I hope this is not your case and really doubt it is. I really hope someone finds out what is wrong with your dogs.

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-18-2011, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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I'm really sorry, I'm not trying to scare away owners of blue dogs. My vet had just told me that's what it could be from. Even though with all of our other breedings this has never happened, just with that one female that one time. So I'm just out here looking for as much help as I can get, and I want to thank all of you that have responded.

As far as mites and scabies go, they would be all over the body. With her it's just on her chocolate coloring. I believe I will go see a specialist so she can hopefully one day grow her beautiful coat back.

Thank you all so much again!
I hope I can get to the bottom of this.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-18-2011, 01:19 PM
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Scabies are not all over the body and not on the body they burrow under the skin you can not see them and they are only in small areas, it can take a Vet many, many scrapings to find one and you can not see them with your eyes. I am not talking about everyday mites that you can see, these are different this is why a specialist is important. As for the blue dog I personally think unless your vet himself is involved in a trial he is grasping at air (I guess you have had the dogs tested to see if the carry the blue gene and if they are truely blues).

It is best to go to the specialist it is less expensive in the long run. I really hope that you find out what is wrong soon. Also if you want to find out more about blues do contact one of the members of the HCA in the health section, I believe some them have blues. Best of luck.

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-18-2011, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karens.2008 View Post
I'm really sorry, I'm not trying to scare away owners of blue dogs. My vet had just told me that's what it could be from. Even though with all of our other breedings this has never happened, just with that one female that one time. So I'm just out here looking for as much help as I can get, and I want to thank all of you that have responded.

As far as mites and scabies go, they would be all over the body. With her it's just on her chocolate coloring. I believe I will go see a specialist so she can hopefully one day grow her beautiful coat back.

Thank you all so much again!
I hope I can get to the bottom of this.
I'm confused... If they are chocolate, why are you worried about the blue gene. My understanding is that blue puppies have blue skin from birth. This, it seems to me, would be quite different from the brown skin pigment found in chocolates...?


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