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post #1 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-13-2007, 07:47 AM Thread Starter
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My Sad Boy? Help!

I thought I would start a new thread on this - because I really would love some input on what we could do to make Jasper happier--- I know I need to take what the pet communicator said with a little bit of a grain of salt-- but she really seemed to sum up his mood. I hate to think of him as depressed. it breaks my heart. As you can see in all our pictures he from time to time gets active-and acts like a not even 2 year old dog -but he does mainly lay around. he seeks us out more than he did as a puppy but he still spends a lot of time alone. Cash and he do toss and tumble but I wonder if he likes that. Here's the summary of our session... I really would love some input. He deserves to be a Happy Hav.

We spent most of the time on Jasper. Cash is just fine --- his job is to make us laugh and he is happy in that roll. he is a big sloppy goof ball even though he's a small dog. She also said that puppies don't communicate in the same way older dogs do-

Jasper was guarded at first ---" I am alright" (big surprise there)

she then did a physical check: Jasper: something with right eye, (tear stains) jaw, (Jas got a staple stuck in his jaw as a puppy) nose, she asked if he was always licking his nose, sternum- needs a chiropractic adjustment- He feels his coat is dull. She asked if it was duller than it used to be (well he used to be brown) she asked what kind of dog he was? he was presneting himself as a Cat!

she came back to clenching jaw-- jaw and tongue tension - he would like a big chewwy something that he had to work at with his tongue and jaw and his teeth something he would have to pull at-- she envisioned something like one of those caramel lollipops that you would suck and pull and chew. (any suggestions on what dog product could fill this need?)

Jasper feels he lays around a lot and has nothing to do--- but it is more self in-flicted she saw he has plenty of opportunity-- he is a little anxious and a little depressed. feels under utilized needs a job to do , a reason for being-- Jasper is a watcher and a good job for him would be to watch over us and to notify us if anything is out of place-- but that we have to set limits-- let him know thta he did a great job but that we will take over from here. We may have confused and upset him by trying to take away what he percieves as his job and his greatest talent--- to watch- She saw him as a much older dog. His high points are the morning walk with Michael and when we both get home at night (or when michale gets home if I have been home)

He likes that we got Cash-- but he said "they never laugh at me anymore now that they have Cash" not a bad thing just an observation and that Cash has changed his existence.

When she asked him about his barking at cars she saw a tail pipe - when she asked him what that was about - she saw breathing issues, anxiety , allergies- with us not with him - when I said we both have allergies thet mine were worse ---but they were under control--- she said she was seeing it more with of Michael, did he get anxious on the morning walks?-- did he ever have anxiety attacks -- she told him to focus on his breathing- that Jasper being so sensitive picks up on the anxiety.

She came back to he wants to be more utilized -- needs a job-- watching over Cash would be too big of a job- because Cash is a big goof ball. that Jasper's job should be to watch the house and us but to just notify us when things are amiss -- we have to be very clear could he could take his responsibility too far. recommended "rescue remedy", for anxiety and liversupport- dandelion greens, milk thistle. yellowdock-- liver support becasue he is going to be under more stress with his new defined job and expectations not because there is anything worng with him.

She came back and asked him about the Cat thing. She said he brightened at this question-- like he came out of his shell completley (I mentioned that his breeder also bred cats-- and jokingly said could he have been raised by cats?)--- she asked him-- he said no he got his mothers milk but always felt closer to the cats-- he liked to be a big fish in a small pond and that he stood out more when he was with the cats and he is more aligned with cat energy--- he told her he was a cat in a past life-- which she said she has never had an animal cross spieces.

She said we should cater to his cat instincts--- that it was almost as if he was "coming out of the closet" he would be very happy with a tiny ball with a bell in it. that I should take him to the pet store and let him pick out some cat toys.

She asked him about the food: he wanted crunchy-- the cooked raw food looked like brown mush-- she suggested EVO--which they eat-- maybe switch the amounts to more crunch less raw. ( I told her they both eat the raw food first--- cash leaves the kibble- -but jasper does eat it) (oddly enough, the evo that had been down there since last night - that they rarely touch was gone when I went to the kitchen) ---- She said the rabbit fillets left an icky feeling in his mouth.

When I asked her to talk to him about dinner time--- his mouth was closed tight and didn't want to go there (remember when I start preparing their food Jasper runs and hides out into the garage) and then she said but he eventually eats. I asked her to talk to him about why he waits til everyone else has eaten. She said he feels that he feels it's his job to clean up-- he doesn't do it out deference to Cash- but that it is a control thing-- If he eats last he is in control--- that we shouldn't pay heed to the usual thinking on Alpha expressions-- that he is actually the alpha between he and Cash-- but he is a depressed Alpha.

Why he hides in the potty room in the garage: when it relates to Cash --- he sometimes just needs his space- to get away from the big sloppy all over the place presence of Cash--- Jasper is extremely intelligent and, organized and detail oriented, and although Cash is fun and a good balance sometimes he just needs to get away--- other time he goes out there to sulk-- and as he realizes his job more and recognize his cat instincts his depression will lift and we will see a brighter more energetic dog. She saw one of the christmas cartoons where they had put socks on the raindeer's ears to make him look like a dog and when they came off- he bounced around and acted happy to be himself

She said Jasper bonds slighlty more with Michael and Cash slightly more with me--- When I said I thought it was becasue Jasper was more walk oriented and Cash more food oriented (Michael walks more - I feed more) she said no, it had more to do with Michael having a more analytical mind and my being more heart based. That Jasper was drawn to the more organized analytical nature of Michael.

Missy, Jasper & Cash
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post #2 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-13-2007, 07:53 AM
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When I saw an animal communicator at the show in Denver she said Mirabel and one of my other dogs would like to do agility. Maybe something like that or rally. I like the idea of rally since you can actually talk to your dogs along the course. It would give him something to do and be proud of and could give him some special one on one time if it is just him.
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post #3 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-13-2007, 08:06 AM
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Missy, do take what the communicator said with a grain of salt. If you focus too much on Jasper BEING depressed, and you begin to feel sorry for him, he will pick up on what you are feeling and BE depressed. Perhaps enroll him in a class, so that he can use his mind and spend some one on one time with you or your husband. That will give him a job to do because he has to focus and do the obedience. Havanese are known for their intelligence and they need brain activity otherwise they get bored and begin misbehaving out of sheer boredom. Some need more stimulation than others, just like people and with that one on one attention, I am sure Jasper will thrive while taking him away from the everyday. Hugs to you, and do your best to not overly worry, as they are so sensitive they will feel they DO have something to worry about. Hugs to you.

"Life is too short to not follow your heart. Live, love and laugh everyday"
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post #4 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-13-2007, 08:15 AM
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Hey Missy I tried to Pm you but your box is full.

You know I have three boys and they each have very different personalities.

Reece is also somewhat of a loner, he will sometimes play with Preston and Nigel and sometimes he just watches from afar. He is not one that want to be cuddled but prefers to lay at your feet. He is a kisser though. He does follow me around most of the day, but it's not unusual to find him under my bed. I don't think that he is depressed I just think it is his personality.

Preston is very laid back, but likes to play rough with the boys. He will lay in your arms, not much of a kisser though and he follows me around, and goes under the bed with Reece from time to time, I wonder whats under that bed, maybe I should check. Preston is my talker, he whines when he wants something and will give you those sweet puppy dog eyes.

Nigel is the wild man of the house, I call him Dennis the Meance. He has calmed down some since learning some manners. If he sees someone else getting lovings he is right there trying to move them out of the way because oh pet me pet me. He is a pest to Preston, always wanting to play, and will lay in your arms and give kisses, he follows me everywhere and is a ball of energy. He knows how to work the cuteness factor.

I guess what I am trying to say is maybe Jasper is just Jasper, I have three and they are totally different, just like kids.

Peace, Love & Havanese
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post #5 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-13-2007, 09:12 AM
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Hmmm, I just don't know. What I do know is that my two have different personalities. Shelby is the clown, cuddler, kisser of the two. Kodi is very sweet, laid back. When we are home, he will sleep behind my chair on the floor. Shelby sleeps right out where everyone can see her, ususally on top of the sofa pillows. But, if Kodi is bored and wants to play, he will bark at you to let you know.

Shelby is the one that will run up to people and dogs first. Kodi will lag behind until I tell him to go say hello.

Shelby whines all the time. Sometimes because she is hungry, sometimes who knows? Kodi sometimes has a sad look on his face and we can't figure out why.

Jas may just be the laid back one in the pack, not 100% of his position. That is what I think has Kodi confused right now and we are trying to remedy it.

Kodi & Shelby's Mom and Julian's Grandma
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post #6 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-13-2007, 09:14 AM
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I too, would suggest some kind of training class. Rally is lots of fun. I haven't tried agility, because no one offers it near me, but it is great for building the dogs confidence and bonding. Personally I don't put much faith in "dog communicators" I'm a skeptic. But I do believe that dogs need jobs and need to be challenged on a daily basis to keep them happy and healthy. I wish you the best of luck.

"Hav" a Great Day,
Debbie & Sam & Delilah

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Suess.
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post #7 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-13-2007, 09:16 AM
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I agree with what everyone else, maybe try something one on one with Jasper. Maybe walks by himself, or something to entertain his analytical mind.
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post #8 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-13-2007, 09:29 AM
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Awwww. Jasper sounds like one of my favorite Havanese. She isn't bouncy, cheery and perky now that she no longer a puppy, but she is content to just lay next to her people and be where they are. I actually love that about her. She is different and loyal to her people. I think Jasper is just very different from Cash, and that's OK too. Embrace the differences and try not to worry about Jasper. He's just Jasper!
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post #9 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-13-2007, 10:15 AM
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Missy, I am another one that strongly believes these guys need a job.

When I think back to when I brought my boys over to play Jasper & Monte were the ones that sat back and watched as Riley & Cash ran around playing. Monte had just finished getting all his shots and was just starting to learn how to socialize, he also did not have Riley’s no fear of life attitude and was timid around other dogs. I knew this was something I was going to have to work on so I decided to start Obedience training with him. Missy I will have to bring him back down and let you tell me if I have a different dog than the first one I brought over, you will be completely shocked, this little guy has come completely out of his shell.
You said Jasper is not food driven but I also remember when the treat’s came out and it was time for the boys to perform Jasper was more than happy to show off his tricks. Could it have been he did not really want the treat but just loves to perform??
I agree and think you should try a class with him, not a personal trainer coming to the house. I think personal trainers are great for issues, I have used private lessons myself but only for things I am having troubles training (getting Riley to sit stay) I think putting them in a class with other dogs not only helps in socializing but also gives them a drive when they see other dogs performing.

Leeann, Riley, Monte & Rumor

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post #10 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-13-2007, 10:29 AM
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I think a lot of people here let you know they just have different personalities. I would totally agree with that. My maltese is the life of every party running around being crazy and people either totally love Belle or hate her (the more you are like Belle... the more you like her)! Dora on the other hand is quiet and keeps to herself. She won't play with dogs until she totally trust them. Belle has never met a dog she hasn't tried to boss around.

Just the other day, I took them to a toy dog park (gotta love LA!) and you would have thought a great dane was trying to kill Dora. A little chi-pom was trying to play with her and she ran and jumped in my lap. Where as Belle was chasing all the dog and barking! I looked like the person who has never socialized her puppy! Dora wanted on my lap the entire time. Here she has all these fancy letters after her name showing she is totally trained but she is very sensitive.

Dora is just different than Belle and I kind of think of it like people just different. I will say that Dora is a different dog when it is just the 4 of us at home, she wants to play, run around, etc. When we are in big group settings, she doesn't act the same- she isn't as comfortable in her surroundings.

I will always say training classes are great but they are often the best for insecure dogs. Because they are given something to do and rather than worrying about everything else, they worry about performing that given task. I will say my girls have been trained together. Isabelle either does very well or really bad! I swear some people have to watch me walk in the ring and think it was my first day ever doing anything! Where as Dora is a good reliable dog. She may not take first place but she is usually second or third and has only not qualified once- she laid down to itch and got back up after she realized she did something wrong. When it is just me and her in the ring, she is confident because she knows it is just like when we play at home.

I would also agree with Melissa about walking him alone. I tend to walk Belle- she listens to me better and my husband takes Dora for her alone time. Dora loves this actually. It gives her special time to sniff and do her own thing. Maybe try it and see how he acts. He may like Cash there to help him feel more secure though.


Dora, Dasher, & Belle's Mommy

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