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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-12-2009, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
Casper and Missy
 
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Casper's high ALT's testing

Casper has high ALT’s and his bile acid post meal testing was high. Here is the results I have gotten so far.

6/11/2008
ALT 317 (high) 12-118
BUN 27 (high) 6-25
All other blood work normal

12/3/08
ALT 347 (high) 12-118
BUN 24 6-25
All other blood work normal

4/30/09
bile acid pre-meal 6.3 <13
Bile acid post meal 38.4 (high) <25
All other blood work normal

5/14/09
ALT 149 (high) 12-118
BUN 32 (high) 6-25

On his last 5/14/09 his ALT was down from 347 to 149, the test was done by another vet and lab, can there be a variance in the results with different labs and vets?

I had made no big changes in his diet and had not started any liver supplements to cause the ALT to go down.

His bile acid test on 4/30 didn’t seem that bad to me, but the vet said he had a compromised liver with the those results.

I took Casper to a Holistic vet and he wanted to his own complete blood work up and allergy test ($361.90) to the total of $658.40 that was on 5/14 I was trying to get him to help me with a diet and a supplement…well I have neither at this time.

This vet thinks allergies can cause these liver problems…have you ever heard of this? Or is this vet just trying to get more $$$$?

I am so confused as to what to feed him, between the allergy testing and what I have read about diet for the compromised liver.

Last edited by Lynn; 06-14-2009 at 11:23 AM.
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-12-2009, 10:24 PM
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Lynn, I am certainly not an expert on this, but I can tell you my experience with Dugan. When he was neutered at 6 months, his ALT was high, around 213. I waited 3 months and got him tested again and it was 210. We did the bile acid tests and if I remember correctly, the before eating was normal, but the after eating was 65 or so. We decided to put Dugan on antibiotics and see if perhaps there was some sort of infection causing a problem. I also changed his food to one that was lower in protein. I switched him to Newman's own, but he started itching so I just switched him to Fromms (with a single protein to help avoid allergies). I also used to give him a lot of boiled chicken for treats and snacks, so I changed this to sweet potatoes to get rid of some of the protein. We went back for bloodwork again a week or so ago and everything was within normal range. Perhaps you want to try to change his diet before anything else. From what I have heard, if they have a shunt, their Bile Acid is usually over 100. My vet suggested I try a fish protein (and stay with one of the lower protein foods) to avoid the allergy issues. I hope this helps.


**Karen, Mom to Brady, Dugan, and Devon

Last edited by Brady's mom; 06-12-2009 at 11:02 PM.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-12-2009, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
...... the test was done by another vet and lab, can there be a variance in the results with different labs and vets?

I had made no big changes in his diet and had not started any liver supplements to cause the ALT to go down.

His bile acid test on 4/30 didn’t seem that bad to me, but the vet said he had a compromised liver with the those results.

I took Casper to a Holistic vet and he wanted to his own complete blood work up and allergy test ($361.90) to the total of $658.40 that was on 5/14 I was trying to get him to help me with a diet and a supplement…well I have neither at this time.

This vet things allergies can cause these liver problems…have you ever heard of this? Or is this vet just trying to get more $$$$?

I am so confused as to what to feed him, between the allergy testing and what I have read about diet for the compromised liver.
Yes, Lynn, different labs can have different results and also different norms. I've found it to be true in our case with Ricky and was told by the vet to always consider which lab is testing.

It could very well be that Casper reacted to some type of toxin (in the air, the back yard, his food/water, from vaccines, or other meds...) and that is what caused the initial high ALT and BAT 'after' results.

I am disappointed that the homeopathic vet didn't recommend a remedy, diet change and/or supplement to help Casper's liver. I don't know about allergies causing such problems with the liver, but then.... ? You could try feeding a lower protein food AND give Casper a supplement such as Denosyl (SAM-e) or Denamrin (SAM-e and milk thistle - even better). There are other herbal tinctures that help support the liver too that can help. Like this one: http://www.natural-pet-info.org/live...FSMeDQodkBWe9Q

But..... since his results are now much lower and out of the danger zone, it might be a non-issue. It is likely something that passed through his system and he dealt with it, his liver dealt with it and it's now gone. I'd retest in 3 months or so, and if the readings are still as low as your May ones, then I wouldn't worry. What is the BUN again?




Hello. My name is marj and I have MHS.




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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-12-2009, 10:46 PM
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Take Marj's advice.

Katrina

and Princess Furface ---Lilly
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-12-2009, 11:33 PM
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There's a really great liver issue yahoo list. You could jump on there and go through their files section. There is great advice in there. Sorry, I don't know the name of it but you can search the yahoo groups and it's the big list

Jan
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-13-2009, 10:10 AM
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Lynn, I am sorry the answers are not clear. I do not know anything about the liver issues other than what I have read here...but I would be encouraged by the lower results. Does Casper act healthy? Hugs to you all.




Missy, Jasper & Cash
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-13-2009, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marjrc View Post
Yes, Lynn, different labs can have different results and also different norms. I've found it to be true in our case with Ricky and was told by the vet to always consider which lab is testing.

But..... since his results are now much lower and out of the danger zone, it might be a non-issue. It is likely something that passed through his system and he dealt with it, his liver dealt with it and it's now gone. I'd retest in 3 months or so, and if the readings are still as low as your May ones, then I wouldn't worry. What is the BUN again?

Marj,
I believe the BUN reading is the reading for the kidney function, I thought that with the high ALT readings they look at the BUN readings also....but I might be wrong.

I might have a false sense of relief with the third ALT testing of (149) because it was taken at a different lab than the first two readings of ALT347-317. The norms of the lab testing was the same of 12-118 at both labs.

I will get him retested in the next 3 months, I am going to work on his diet and a supplement.

It was good that I have the forum to read about this...I read everyones experiences with the high ALT and BATs and I think all of them with changed with diet and supplements, so I didn't want to put Casper ( who hates the vet ) though alot of testing until I work on his diet.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-13-2009, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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Lynn, I am sorry the answers are not clear. I do not know anything about the liver issues other than what I have read here...but I would be encouraged by the lower results. Does Casper act healthy? Hugs to you all.
Hi Missy,
Yes, Casper acts normal...eats good, poops ok, plays live crazy with my Missy.
The only difference I can see between him and Missy is he likes to sleep a little more than she does during the day, but he is a year older than her.

But that is the thing with all this...they just don't act sick with these kind of high ALT's and my vet said some breeds just have a raised ALT readings, but I don't thing we know that to be a fact with the Havanese breed.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-13-2009, 01:03 PM
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Exactly, Lynn, what you say in your last post is so true. Ricky also acts completely normal but that darn ALT is at 445 now! I'm back to diet and supplements so, like you, will retest in 3 mths.

In the meantime, I'm sure Casper will be perfectly fine and enjoy his summer. That last reading, even if at a diff. lab, is reassuring.




Hello. My name is marj and I have MHS.




"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Mahatma Gandhi

“Come to the edge, he said. They said: We are afraid. Come to the edge, he said. They came. He pushed them and they flew.” -Guillaume Apollinaire"
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-13-2009, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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thanks Marj, you are so much help to us all
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