We're Back - Page 2 - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
 20Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-07-2017, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
Sophie
 
KarMar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 917
Submit Photo: 4
Photo Submissions 29 Times in 28 Posts
Nothing better today. Been very unimpressed with the judging so far this weekend. I was watching the judge do his thing before we had to start getting ready, and I just knew things wouldn't be good.

Feel free to not read the rant. I'm feeling a lot of emotions about certain things lol.

No consistency in his picks in the breeds I watched before, and the same with Havs. Another first in class, but nothing in the winners ring. The dog that took Winners Dog yesterday was one I could lose gracefully to. The one that won today? Not as much. Long and low with a level top line. Then a girl of a very similar breeding (sired by brothers, or something like that) took Winners Bitch. Also very long and low.

The funky looking dogs winning isn't what bothered me the most. I was asked to take a special into the BOB ring because her owners were in the ring with WD and WB (from the bred by classes). She has a similar build to the winners but is a much nicer dog when comparing to the standard, winning under judges who like the long Euro look. She was wild and excited to be in the ring with a stranger, but when she needed to perform, she did. The judge didn't give a Select Bitch, withholding the award from her. People were shocked. This girl has multiple group placements, beating a top 10 Hav on more than one occasion for breed. I, of course, felt awful. There was really no controlling her wildness (stranger handling, Mom directly behind her...I don't blame the dog), but to withhold was just unnecessary. She settled down enough for him to get a thorough exam in, and she moved beautifully on her down and back. It was being discussed a bit afterwards very hush hush, and one exhibitor who does very well with their dogs likened it to The Twilight Zone.

I also watched this judge do juniors today, and was very upset by the way he handled it. He lost his patience very quickly, gave almost no direction, and was very snippy with the kids. His group picks were completely out of left field, making little to know sense to me. Many around me during breed and juniors were discussing reaching out to AKC, the kennel club hosting, or whomever else it may concern regarding this judge. It was absolutely ridiculous and made yesterday look like a wonderful dream.

I'm not going to lie, after two days in a row of watching incredibly consistent Golden picks in an entry of over 90, I felt a bit jealous. I do wish there were more Havanese breed specialists, but it seems most judges just tick Havanese off on approved breeds to get a full toy group judging license situation. Judges tend to pick the dog with the most coat and/or the craziest top line because those are buzz words in the breed standard. Nevermind the fact that a green eyed dog was put up today...

Anyways, rant over. I have heard good things about tomorrow's judge (like that she puts dogs with less coat up if they have good structure and movement...which is where Nino is). Fingers crossed, but I don't expect too much.

Sophie, Mario, and Nino.



KarMar is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-08-2017, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
Sophie
 
KarMar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 917
Submit Photo: 4
Photo Submissions 29 Times in 28 Posts
What I had heard about today's judge proved true. Nino won his class and was given a very good look in the Winners ring. We ended up going reserve, and the judge told us the boys were very evenly matched structure and movement wise, so she had to put the dog with better coat and more substance. Nino is scrawny with a coat that is coming in very slowly, so I totally agree with her choice. It has been awhile since we have done anything better than a class placement, so I was beyond happy. No points, but a good day with my best boy who showed like a champ and was recognized for his strengths.
krandall and Paddington like this.

Sophie, Mario, and Nino.



KarMar is offline  
Old 01-08-2017, 03:42 PM
Senior Member
 
ShamaMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,908
Submit Photo: 2
Photo Submissions 61 Times in 60 Posts
Glad you were beyond happy to day. Sorry you weren't happier prior. I don't know anything about the show world, so I can't comment further. Just know that Shama is looking forward to her next play date with Nino. Yesterday, at Petco's puppy play time, she got to spar with a seven-month-old Havanese/Pomeranian mix (havapom - just googled it). Fun, but not as fun as Nino (or Maggie or Penny!)

ShamaMama is offline  
 
Old 01-08-2017, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
Sophie
 
KarMar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 917
Submit Photo: 4
Photo Submissions 29 Times in 28 Posts
Another positive from this weekend...I finally found the slicker I had been using but lost in September at a vendor today. I had been using the Oscar Frank Universal Slicker in the mean time and really did not like it at all, so this is a much welcome change.
krandall likes this.

Sophie, Mario, and Nino.



KarMar is offline  
Old 01-08-2017, 06:17 PM
Senior Member
 
ShamaMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,908
Submit Photo: 2
Photo Submissions 61 Times in 60 Posts
Which slicker? Can we see a photo of Nino modeling it?

ShamaMama is offline  
Old 01-08-2017, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
Sophie
 
KarMar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 917
Submit Photo: 4
Photo Submissions 29 Times in 28 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShamaMama View Post
Which slicker? Can we see a photo of Nino modeling it?
I have posted pictures before, but I will also post again as I think I got the bigger size this time (though I can't tell...this "large" is much less bulky than the Universal "regular"). Expect photos at some point tomorrow

Sophie, Mario, and Nino.



KarMar is offline  
Old 01-09-2017, 09:00 AM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,403
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 296 Times in 294 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarMar View Post
What I had heard about today's judge proved true. Nino won his class and was given a very good look in the Winners ring. We ended up going reserve, and the judge told us the boys were very evenly matched structure and movement wise, so she had to put the dog with better coat and more substance. Nino is scrawny with a coat that is coming in very slowly, so I totally agree with her choice. It has been awhile since we have done anything better than a class placement, so I was beyond happy. No points, but a good day with my best boy who showed like a champ and was recognized for his strengths.
From what I've seen of conformation showing, it's almost a luck of the draw. I've been in the ring 3 days in a row, with EXACTLY the same dogs, and seen COMPLETELY different results each day, even though all the dogs behaved well. (or in a couple of instances, where the winning dog behaved abominably, but had a well-known "name" on the end of the lead)

I'm going to continue to do it, because I WOULD like Panda to finish, and I am still honing my skills in this type of competition. Panda has the same coat problem as Nino, and it isn't surprising, because her dad (who was 15th all-breed for 2016) did;t sow much until he was over 2 because of a slow coat, and her mom had a slow coat too. Both have GORGEOUS adult coats, but it just came in slower. I can wait. It's interesting, though, that she seems to have MORE coat than Nino, but it doesn't seem as long as his. She looks "puffier". Personally, I'm a big fan of the silky, drapey coats like Nino's... I just want to run my hands through them! Panda's is super soft too... it just doesn't have much length.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is offline  
Old 01-09-2017, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
Sophie
 
KarMar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 917
Submit Photo: 4
Photo Submissions 29 Times in 28 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by krandall View Post
From what I've seen of conformation showing, it's almost a luck of the draw. I've been in the ring 3 days in a row, with EXACTLY the same dogs, and seen COMPLETELY different results each day, even though all the dogs behaved well. (or in a couple of instances, where the winning dog behaved abominably, but had a well-known "name" on the end of the lead)

I'm going to continue to do it, because I WOULD like Panda to finish, and I am still honing my skills in this type of competition. Panda has the same coat problem as Nino, and it isn't surprising, because her dad (who was 15th all-breed for 2016) did;t sow much until he was over 2 because of a slow coat, and her mom had a slow coat too. Both have GORGEOUS adult coats, but it just came in slower. I can wait. It's interesting, though, that she seems to have MORE coat than Nino, but it doesn't seem as long as his. She looks "puffier". Personally, I'm a big fan of the silky, drapey coats like Nino's... I just want to run my hands through them! Panda's is super soft too... it just doesn't have much length.
I am also planning on sticking with it. We both genuinely enjoy show days, otherwise I wouldn't do it at all. Each time I'm in the ring, I notice improvement in my handling and his showmanship.

I far prefer Nino's easy-care, silky coat to some of the huge, cottony coats I see. Means he can be a dog without matting, picking up debris, etc etc. Big coats are very "in" right now, but when comparing him to the Havs of the mid-2000s, his coat is the norm. In fact, he looks very much like great grandpa Buster, who was one of the winningest of all time. The standard calls for an abundant but light, silky coat with more top coat than undercoat. I think Nino fits that...I just need to find judges that feel the same way Nino's coat has gained length like nobodies business in the past couple months and is about 11 inches at its longest...if only he could grow undercoat at that rate

If you are able to, ask Elizabeth to print you off the AKC awards record for Panda's dam and sire, as well as any other family possible. Sheila got me the details of every show Nino's dam, sire, granddam, half-sister, and aunt have been in, including the judges and how they placed, as a "Christmas gift". Very interesting stuff.
krandall likes this.

Sophie, Mario, and Nino.



KarMar is offline  
Old 01-09-2017, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
Sophie
 
KarMar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 917
Submit Photo: 4
Photo Submissions 29 Times in 28 Posts
A couple photos from this weekend.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 15976955_1432914176721667_3743835917311333845_n.jpg (44.4 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 15940816_1432914163388335_2433078583845487865_n.jpg (44.9 KB, 2 views)
Cbelknap and Paddington like this.

Sophie, Mario, and Nino.



KarMar is offline  
Old 01-09-2017, 01:29 PM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,403
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 296 Times in 294 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarMar View Post

If you are able to, ask Elizabeth to print you off the AKC awards record for Panda's dam and sire, as well as any other family possible. Sheila got me the details of every show Nino's dam, sire, granddam, half-sister, and aunt have been in, including the judges and how they placed, as a "Christmas gift". Very interesting stuff.
Panda's Dam never showed, and while her farther-back family tree is mostly champions, they aren't shown more than that. Which is what MANY breeders do.. They finish them, but if you won't put your dog out with a handler, which I support, specializing them really isn't possible when you are also breeding puppies at home.

Panda's sire's sire is Kenny, GCH CH Yup's Malibu Dream, 2013 Best Havanese Dog. (Top Havanese that year was a bitch, so he was #2 in the breed) In 5 generations back, Panda only has 5 dogs who were not champions on the top. On the bottom, her Dam's dam's line is all champions. He dam's sire's line is imported Pillowtalk dogs. He was finished after she was imported, but the dogs further back on the top don't show up on AKC papers or searches because any wins they had would have been in FCI, not AKC. (and heaven forbid AKC should report titles from any other organization! )

I really don't have the band width to go through it all dog by dog or show by show. Elizabeth knows ALL the judges, and will tell me if one is a bad fit for Panda. (I'm in charge with planning performance stuff, she's in charge of the conformation end) Generally, if they like Cab, they like her. Unfortunately, it means she's usually against her dad (who has an adult coat) in the breed ring.

The funny thing is that there is a lot of Panda's breeding that I wouldn't choose if I were looking for my "dream pedigree". But she is one of those individuals who is DEFINITELY an improvement on her dam. In some ways I like her better than her sire, in other ways he's better. And she will NEVER be campaigned the way he has, so she will never have the conformation career he has had, even were she capable of it. (so we'll never know on that front )

BTW, it feels like other "rites of passage" for my girl, she has passed her cardiac, Cerf and patella tests! Hips she's too young for, and we'll do thyroid when she has her annual stick for titers. I don't KNOW that we will ever breed her, (and that decision is solely mine) but I promised Elizabeth that we'd do all her testing as if that was the intention.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is offline  
 

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Thread Tools



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome