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post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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Geez, I need to read my rules more carefully! Never made the distinction of only requiring a 6' leash for BN Ob. Always assumed it was the Novice Ob also. Actually, it's a good thing...no more leash getting caught on my knee while heeling. Thanks, Karen!
Yup. My rule book is with me all the time! I actually take them to Staples, have the cover laminated, then have them take it apart and spiral bind it for me. It's not expensive, they'll do it while you wait, and it's MUCH more user-friendly that way! Mine is also full of post-it type page markers for things I'm working on or think I'm likely to forget.

...And our instructor is likely to give pop quizzes on the rules in class too, so we have another incentive to learn the "real" rules, rather than just guessing. (or listening to some ringside know-it-all ) It can make the difference between a Q or not.
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post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 09:43 PM
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Yup. My rule book is with me all the time! I actually take them to Staples, have the cover laminated, then have them take it apart and spiral bind it for me. It's not expensive, they'll do it while you wait, and it's MUCH more user-friendly that way! Mine is also full of post-it type page markers for things I'm working on or think I'm likely to forget.

...And our instructor is likely to give pop quizzes on the rules in class too, so we have another incentive to learn the "real" rules, rather than just guessing. (or listening to some ringside know-it-all ) It can make the difference between a Q or not.
Great idea on binding the rule books! Your instructor looks fabulous! I can just tell by the way she interacts with you and your dogs on the videos! She reminds me of my dressage (horseback riding) instructor years ago. Really engaged with her students. Wish I could find that kind of dog instruction out here!
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post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
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Great idea on binding the rule books! Your instructor looks fabulous! I can just tell by the way she interacts with you and your dogs on the videos! She reminds me of my dressage (horseback riding) instructor years ago. Really engaged with her students. Wish I could find that kind of dog instruction out here!
Yes, she is VERY similar to a couple of dressage instructors I've worked with!

..And yes, she's wonderful! She is one of the staff members for Fenzi Dog Sports Academy on line.


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post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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Some more motivational heeling with both dogs last night!

Panda:
https://youtu.be/HnQNrfYDCc8

Here is Kodi, who, of course, has had much more experience with this. You can see how much fun he has with it!:
https://youtu.be/eX-eagRveWs

Note, that the time spent in both segments was quite short. With Kodi it was under two minutes, because he was more engaged, and I spent less time on getting the kind of heeling I wanted. Panda is less experienced, AND was a little sleepy. Her class is after Kodi's, and RIGHT at what would be supper time if we were home. I COULD have gotten much more engaged heeling immediately if I'd pulled out the food, but the whole point is to get that engagement through play. So with her, it was still under 2 1/2 minutes.


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plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






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post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 10:28 AM
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Thanks for sharing the videos. What toy were you using? Was it all one toy, long furry rope with stuffed animal at end, or was it something you rigged up? Your instructor said something like, "Not all dogs like to tug, but they'll chase." That's Shama, much more interested in chasing things that move than she is in hanging on to something I'm tugging. I have a hard time motivating Shama with anything other than treats. Did Kodi have his hair tied back? I coudn't tell . . .

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post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for sharing the videos. What toy were you using? Was it all one toy, long furry rope with stuffed animal at end, or was it something you rigged up? Your instructor said something like, "Not all dogs like to tug, but they'll chase." That's Shama, much more interested in chasing things that move than she is in hanging on to something I'm tugging. I have a hard time motivating Shama with anything other than treats. Did Kodi have his hair tied back? I coudn't tell . . .
That particular toy is one from Denise Fenzi. It's a piece of real rabbit fur on the end of a long, nylon handle. But I have others I'ce made myself. It doesn't matter as long as it's something your dog likes and you can control. For instance, you shouldn't use a ball unless you are POSITIVE your dog will bring it back to you EVERY time.

My guys aren't big tuggers either. But they do love the chase! I think Esther was pointing that out because there are a couple of new people in our class with softish Shelties. We also have a Terv and 3 retrievers, who have a VERY strong tug. I think she wanted the new people to understand that this play style was fine too... It's all about what YOUR dog enjoys!

Toy play and personal play is definitely something that needs to be developed... But it is SO worthwhile! It's easy to turn into a walking Pez dispenser... and we can't take food into the ring. Even in those venues where you CAN have food in the ring, like CDSP and WCRL, you can only use the food at the end of an exercise. How long does it take dogs to figure that out? NOT long!!! Toy play can be a bridge between food and personal play, and the end goal is personal play. You ALWAYS have that with you in the ring!

When you are starting to use play rather than food, especially with an adult dog initially trained just on cookies, some dogs think, "What did I do wrong? I'm not getting any cookies?!?!" You need to go into a play session with NO cookies on your body, and the determination that ALL you are going to use is play. Then you work to find what your dog likes, do one TINY bit of "work" (maybe JUST a set-up) then play again and be done for that session. For a lot of very food motivated dogs, the minute food comes out, that's ALL they want to work for. Kodi has worked for food AND play for a long time now, and Panda has done it from the very beginning. So both are pretty good switching back and forth. But under stress, they will both work much more easily for food than play. We keep working on building those "play" muscles!

And yes, my dogs' hair is ALWAYS tied back when they work. Even at home, if we're having a "lazy day"and haven't groomed, and I want to train something, I'll quickly pull their hair back in a terry band.


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post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 01:38 PM
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Yes, I got Shama one of those stretchy little balls which is all frame, and I found she's interested in it only when it has a big piece of turkey jerkey put inside (after stretching the openings). Even then, she doesn't bring it back to me. Fetch is another skill we still need to work on!

Thanks for all your valuable advice. I need to work on the toy and personal play!

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post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, I got Shama one of those stretchy little balls which is all frame, and I found she's interested in it only when it has a big piece of turkey jerkey put inside (after stretching the openings). Even then, she doesn't bring it back to me. Fetch is another skill we still need to work on!

Thanks for all your valuable advice. I need to work on the toy and personal play!
If you really want it to be play, though, it can't be because she wants to get food out of it. Then the food is the reward and the ball is only an obstacle or challenge to get though. What dog in his or her right mind would want to bother bringing the ball BACK after they get their precious jerky out of it! That's why toys on a rope or string are better, because you don't relinquish control. They can play with you with the toy, or you put the toy away. Simple as that.
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post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 03:14 PM
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She can't actually get the jerky out without a lot of hard work, because my DH and I stretch the ball enough to put a big piece of jerky in; once the ball regains its shape, the jerky can't fall out or be pulled out. It would have to be nibbled. Now it's my go-to distractor when I put her in the crate at agility practice and want her to not bark to get out. Doesn't really work for that either. Still need to work on our crate games per Susan Garrett . . .

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post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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She can't actually get the jerky out without a lot of hard work, because my DH and I stretch the ball enough to put a big piece of jerky in; once the ball regains its shape, the jerky can't fall out or be pulled out. It would have to be nibbled. Now it's my go-to distractor when I put her in the crate at agility practice and want her to not bark to get out. Doesn't really work for that either. Still need to work on our crate games per Susan Garrett . . .
That sounds like a good use for it... sort of like a "super Kong". But not as a toy for play as a reward for work. She's still TRYING to get the food out, not enjoying it as a "toy" in and of itself.

And, yes, Crate Games will for sure help with the crate barking! But you are doing the right thing by persevering. It is SO important for dogs to get to AT LEAST accept crating when needed, better if they get to really like it. Even Panda at this point will nap in her crate at a trial or training party, so she is rested and fresh when it's her turn.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






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