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Canine Nutrition Seminar

6K views 55 replies 16 participants last post by  davetgabby 
#1 ·
I went to a canine nutrition seminar done by a homeopath today and while I have heard most of the stuff. It was a refresher and made me really think about kibble and canned (she is completely against can food- she says it is kibble with more toxins as most of it is cooked in the can). She is completely pro raw (most are though) but she is all about natural everything. No vaccinations, no supplements, no carbs, no veggies. The best part is she had nothing to sell and I was going into thinking what is she gonna try to sell. I have a lot more research to do but I think I am going to go this route with all my dogs. She says she likes nature's variety but feels you are paying a lot more per pound and the carrots and apples are useless. She also said to take my money and put it towards organic (NV only has organic chicken) Her method is just simply following 80/10/10 and she does do fish oil 3 days a week. But nothing else and making sure at least 4/7 days they are eating it themselves (not ground).

They are trying to start a local coop around here to get organic products from one of the local organic farmers. As of right now they get shipments from www.hare-today.com Just thought I would share a snip it of what I talked about today.
 
#3 ·
Ann- cause she was from a country that didn't do them so she was against them when she came here. She is actually from Cuba and is a fan of Havs! ;) She feels a lot of our dogs' health problems are directly from vaccines and kibble. It was just at my obedience club. Next time she is doing a vaccination seminar so didn't talk about that as much. Her full time job is treating dogs the natural way and she often has dogs living with her. A lot of it is honestly just common sense from her part and she is very honest about that. But hearing it and hearing it from someone whose full time job is to treat dogs is helpful.

Ironically a lot of the people there are natural themselves- one lady has 7 children and none of them have been vaccinated but each year she takes her dog cause she said he is outside a lot. She came because he has horrible allergies.
 
#13 ·
She feels a lot of our dogs' health problems are directly from vaccines and kibble.
I agree with this. I don't think all commercial grade dog food is horrible, but what we feed and the toxins we put in our animals does in my researched opinion cause our animals to die younger.

Raw is good but it isn't cheaper for sure when you have multiple dogs.

Myra Servant, a well respected canine reproduction person, believes that a raw diet isn't good for pregnant bitches due to higher calcium intake. Any one experience negative labor/delivery with their raw fed girls?
 
#4 ·
Raw can definitely be a healthy alternative. If you are disciplined ,,have extra time and know how to balance things out it is great. Your dog has to be able to handle it as well. But according to an article I was given , about canned versus kibble , the part about canned is not accurate. Here is part of the article about canned versus kibble.....
One of the most important advantages of wet food is that it is much less processed and often
made from higher quality ingredients than dry kibble. Wet food requires no cooking prior to the
canning process, since it is cooked in the can to create a bacteria free environment. Food
being less processed means it is also more digestible, the body doesn't need to work as hard
to utilize it.
 
#44 ·
, about canned versus kibble , the part about canned is not accurate. Here is part of the article about canned versus kibble.....
One of the most important advantages of wet food is that it is much less processed and often
made from higher quality ingredients than dry kibble. Wet food requires no cooking prior to the
canning process, since it is cooked in the can to create a bacteria free environment. Food
being less processed means it is also more digestible, the body doesn't need to work as hard
to utilize it.
I don't know about all of this but when I talked to the place that tests dog food, they said that canned was much less likely to have a problem and that it would be mostly the kibble with problems.
My dogs can't handle canned food as a whole meal. They wind up with really messy behinds and I wind up holding back my own dinner as I clean it up
 
#5 ·
But then what happens if you had to board them or take them to a groomer who wants proof of vaccinations? I hear lots of talk about not vaccinating kids but chose to do it with mine, it's a tough choice and people feel strongly on both sides. Perhaps it's the same in the dog world?

I just can't do the raw food, it grosses me out. It's all I can do to prepare meat for our family so there's no way I could manage to mix up all that stuff for the dogs. (I beg Gavin to make burgers because ground meat makes me want to :puke:.)

What do you feed now?
 
#6 ·
Well she would say you are comparing canned crap to bagged crap. She said the only difference is more water and then you get the toxins from cooking it in the can as well. I don't know about quality of ingredients being different as she said most isn't regulated at all. She also thought canned had more preservatives and additives. But she doesn't feed her own dogs either.

Definitely not saying this is for everyone- it was one canine nutritionist opinion.
 
#7 ·
Ann- right now Dash is on evo with my home toppings. Dora does a rotation (between raw and evo) and Belle is on NV raw medallions and I do a rmb a few times a week with her. But I really think I am going to take them all over to the raw side soon. I gotta do a lot more reading and be totally prepared first. I have seen her dogs and some of the dogs she has treated over this last year of living here and I like the results I see.

Well I will tell you it isn't cheap but every place I have been involved with takes titers. But I don't board or take my dogs to a groomer but most trainers understand and don't ask for vaccinations and therapy dog will take titers.
 
#8 ·
this article goes on and disputes her claim that canned has more preservatives than kibble....

Unlike during the manufacturing of dry food, moisture does not have to be removed from the
ingredients of canned food, so food ingredients like meat, grains, potatoes/sweet potatoes,
pasta, vegetables and fruits remain fairly unchanged. Many ingredients used to manufacture
dry food have already been processed at least once before they are mixed into kibble "dough"
and cooked yet again (rendered meat meals and animal-based fats, dried vegetables and
eggs etc.).
Longer shelf life, less additives and preservatives, no flavoring agents
Canned food generally has a shelf life of two years and more without degradation of nutritional
value, compared to dry food, which can lose much of its nutrient content within a year of
the manufacturing date - depending on how it is preserved. The more natural stabilizers are
used, the shorter the shelf life.
A 1997 study by the University of Illinois Department of Food Science and Human Nutrition
found that canned fruits and vegetables for example provide as much dietary fiber and vitamins
as the same corresponding fresh foods, and in some cases, even more. Fresh foods
begin losing vitamins as soon as they are picked, and often travel long ways.
Although small amounts of preservatives may be present in canned food if they were already
added to specific ingredients used for the formulation, it does not need added preservatives
since the canning process sterilizes and preserves the food in an oxygen-free environment.
There is plenty of meat and fat to make the food palatable without flavoring agents, and since
the can is sealed no humectants are needed to keep moisture in, and no mold inhibitors (like
in semi-moist food products) to prevent the food from becoming moldy.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Oh yeah , home cooked is very healthy. I give Molly 10 percent of her calories as home cooked. I would probably do more if we home cooked for ourselves regularily and healthy.
 
#11 ·
Actually most of the reading I've done also indicates that good quality canned is better than kibble. Usually I've read the order of food goes Raw, home cooked, canned, then kibble.

I follow the 75/15/10 rule...my rule ;-) 75% meat, lentils and cottage cheese, 15% pulped veggies and 10% organ meat.

Raw is so good Boney M made a song of it...Raw, Raw, Rawsputin...
 
#43 ·
Actually most of the reading I've done also indicates that good quality canned is better than kibble. Usually I've read the order of food goes Raw, home cooked, canned, then kibble.

I follow the 75/15/10 rule...my rule ;-) 75% meat, lentils and cottage cheese, 15% pulped veggies and 10% organ meat.

Raw is so good Boney M made a song of it...Raw, Raw, Rawsputin...
Daniel, that's one very high protien diet. Can that be hard on the liver?
 
#12 ·
Daniel- she is a big supporter of the prey model. Why do you use these: lentils and cottage cheese, 15% pulped veggies?

Could someone give me an example of a good quality canned that uses better quality ingredients than the same kibble? I am really having a hard time believing that just cause it is cooked in a can (this seems bad to me) and has water added, it is better. As to bacteria, as soon as you open the can, it can grow a lot more bacteria than kibble.

Dave- what canned food do you feed your dog? And how long have you been feeding canned only?
 
#14 ·
Daniel- she is a big supporter of the prey model. Why do you use these: lentils and cottage cheese, 15% pulped veggies?

Could someone give me an example of a good quality canned that uses better quality ingredients than the same kibble? I am really having a hard time believing that just cause it is cooked in a can (this seems bad to me) and has water added, it is better. As to bacteria, as soon as you open the can, it can grow a lot more bacteria than kibble.

Dave- what canned food do you feed your dog? And how long have you been feeding canned only?
Well Lentils have so many healthful benefits from providing good to excellent amounts of six important minerals, two B-vitamins, and protein-all with virtually no fat. They are also rich in dietary fiber, both the soluble and insoluble type. Research studies (for people though not dogs) have shown that insoluble fiber not only helps to increase stool bulk and prevent constipation, but also helps prevent digestive disorders like irritable bowel syndrome and diverticulosis.

As well they are a very good source of protein that is easily digestable when cooked. Therefore this helps me cut down on the cost of meat. Feeding two dogs can get expensive.

Cottage cheese is low in fat and carbs and very high in protein. It's also a good course of calcium, with Vitamin D.

I would suggest Evo canned as well as California Natural are two good sources.
 
#15 ·
Amanda, who was the speaker?

I won't do raw for a couple of reasons (prep, cleanup & compromised immune systems of some of our regular visitors), but I would not even consider it for my breeding bitches especially after hearing some reports from Myra Savant-Harris, RN.
 
#16 ·
My sister began feeding raw to her 4 dogs, some big, some small...until she ran out of money! :laugh: I asked my vet about it. She said "raw" is not the same as when animals had to kill in the wild. Today's meat comes from animals that have had injections and who eat questionable substances themselves sometimes. A wild animal did not have these chemicals in them. I am curious, though, as to what canned food Dave uses. As for vaccinations, I believe, just like people, that they are a necessary evil. I think the problems started to escalate in humans when they started to combine and give multiple vaccines at a time. Some children cannot tolerate the load and can get all kinds of illnesses. My sister's dog got too much rabies shot for its size (this was quite a while back and that practice I believe has changed) and he developed a terrible itchy, smelly skin problem that he still had when he died.
 
#17 ·
Some dogs will, and do, die from viruses. Following is a link for interesting reading. I believe that she did lose one of her dogs to non-vaccination, but I don't have time to look it up. It might have been a friend of hers - but I remember reading the article and it was difficult as she / or her friend thought there were doing the best thing for the dog's health. She does give suggestions on how to be prepared when the dog does come down with parvo and the vaccine wasn't given. Personally, until I delve much, much further into the subject, I am for minimal vaccinations. I have only given my guys their puppy shots, and titers several years later still showed them high. (which according to her articles, showing high is not necessary as long as initial titers showed there was a reaction). I am saying, don't, please don't just say "well, this lady says it's ok not to vaccinate". That type of statement will end in alot of dog's deaths due to negligence of the owners to be prepared - both for what to do if the dog gets sick and to be prepared for their possible death and b/c of the lack of substantial research and information gathering by the owner. Blanket statements like these are dangerous b/c what ends up getting around is "you don't have to vaccinate" rather than a more moderate approach of "we don't have to vaccinate nearly as much" which affords protection for the majority of dogs whose owners are not obsessive about their health and care and prepreation.
Some good starter reading is found here: caberfeidh.com/HHC.htm --this is the index for a few holistic health articles.

As are as the raw goes, the 10% organ meat is, in my opinion, often confused with being 10% liver. Personally, I think this is waaaay too much vit A, and I stick with around 3-4% liver, depending on the type of meat source. I do have sporadic consults with a well, well known specialist regarding diet for special needs dogs. What I was told was that alot more dogs that are being raw 'barf' (mostly just meat) fed are now being seen in her clinic with cancer, and she does think supplementation is good - however, it's darn difficult to find a supplement that is in moderation and doesn't go overboard, imo. Due to severe food allergies, we dont' have access to an ideal vitamin supplement - but I do have something I am using. Personally, I prefer human vitamins from well respected sources as I just don't trust "dog" supplements. So, there's another difficulty in acquiring a product that is appropriate for much smaller dogs. Too much supplements - vitamin - maybe even more the minerals - can be very bad and dangerous. But, too little, as in all meat/bone may in fact be rising the incident of cancer. Her info at this point is just what she has noticed in her practice, so there isn't 'proof', but it sure is worth considering in my opinion. I try hard for 'moderation' b/c I think that either extreme can lead for more oppurtunity for negative results. As my dogs get stabilized, and I will finally be able to acquire my Hav, then I want to consult her with raising a healthy dog on home prepared, and then I can find out more about other options for vitamins.
But in the meantime, my 'moderation' stance is both reflective in regards to vaccines as well as food. No, I'm not a vet, and not nearly as smart as many others who really are trying to get the true picture. This is my viewpoint only that comes from alot of years watching the human scientist tell us things like "vit E is a miracle vitamin" only to come back years later and tell us that taking more than 200 mg of vit E a day can lead to more severe health issues". (This dosage is for humans) So, moderation regarding the food means not going to the extreme of only feeding meat/bones and wondering where these doggies are going to get their micronutrients from. By the way, are these dog that are being fed meat/bone only -- are they getting the whole animal? The eyes, the brain, the intestines? Most aren't - most of us are far to squimish for that and just give meat/bones with a little organ added on top. This isn't a balanced meal at all, imo.

For what it's worth (and may be worth very little to most of you), but I do feed well cooked veggies to my guys. I also believe that small amounts of fruit for dogs are just as they are for us. There are a lot of phyto-nutrients in whole foods - and as long as you educate yourself on what not to give (and some veggies I limit severely in their diet due to nutrition uptake issues), then my personal opinion is that my dogs do acquire these micro-nutrients.

Again, still stating my personal feelings, I don't like the idea of their consuming bone unless it is ground. Lots of people do this, but I am not comfortable with the risk. A dog can pull meat off of a large bone, which helps his jaw muscles and teeth, but consuming unground bones do have risks. Besides possible obstruction/perforation, there is the risk of breaking teeth. I should know, as mine each have at least one 4th premolar broken (seems to be the first one to go). Some have been removed, and one dog actually has a root canal - which may/may not still have to be removed. Will find out more with the upcoming dental cleaning.

I think it's great that more people are getting educated about health for their dogs and their selves. But, I worry about blanket statements b/c many people hearing such things just won't take in all the relevant information and take shortcuts and won't take the time for education and prep. And, as far as no vaccines go at all, well, I don't think you will find any older people who lived thru the polio years that will tell you that no one should get the polio shot. Yes, it does come with risks. All things do. The question to ask is: where is the greater risk? and what risk am I best capable of managing? The big reason some kids are not being vaccinated today is the belief that since the 'herd' is generally vacinated, then the 'individual' will be mostly protected. "herd" immunity. Hmmm, that still doesn't mean that 'that' person/dog won't get sick just b/c "most" around him have been vaccinated.

Having went on a long rant that may turn many people off, I will finalize by saying that I still continue to read, research both of these issues. My mind is open to changes, and there is the possibility that I will come back on this board a few years down the road and say something else if I feel truely relevant information has surfaced to sway my opinion. But, I think this moderate stance is very likely where, I, personally will stay.

These are hot topics, and very important. If I offended anyone by my tone, then I apologize. I realize that I may come off sounding harsh, and it is not my intention. I'm just stating why I feel the way I do, and it can be difficult to print all this and still 'sound' nice in tone when it's just in email. So, I hope everyone takes my point of view not as a personal attack --especially to the original poster who has started this topic b/c I do not mean it this way, ok?
I am concerned the op will think this is an attack since she brought it up -- but please don't think so -- it is not an attack on you! :)
Maybe I do get too opinionated about these topics and maybe I should just :ban: myself from them. I guess it all hits too close to home for me since I struggle so much with the health of my two dogs and all their serious issues, and not knowing for sure what helps/hurts.
 
#24 ·
Some dogs will, and do, die from viruses. Following is a link for interesting reading. I believe that she did lose one of her dogs to non-vaccination, but I don't have time to look it up. It might have been a friend of hers - but I remember reading the article and it was difficult as she / or her friend thought there were doing the best thing for the dog's health. She does give suggestions on how to be prepared when the dog does come down with parvo and the vaccine wasn't given. Personally, until I delve much, much further into the subject, I am for minimal vaccinations. I have only given my guys their puppy shots, and titers several years later still showed them high. (which according to her articles, showing high is not necessary as long as initial titers showed there was a reaction). I am saying, don't, please don't just say "well, this lady says it's ok not to vaccinate". That type of statement will end in alot of dog's deaths due to negligence of the owners to be prepared - both for what to do if the dog gets sick and to be prepared for their possible death and b/c of the lack of substantial research and information gathering by the owner. Blanket statements like these are dangerous b/c what ends up getting around is "you don't have to vaccinate" rather than a more moderate approach of "we don't have to vaccinate nearly as much" which affords protection for the majority of dogs whose owners are not obsessive about their health and care and prepreation.
Some good starter reading is found here: caberfeidh.com/HHC.htm --this is the index for a few holistic health articles.

As are as the raw goes, the 10% organ meat is, in my opinion, often confused with being 10% liver. Personally, I think this is waaaay too much vit A, and I stick with around 3-4% liver, depending on the type of meat source. I do have sporadic consults with a well, well known specialist regarding diet for special needs dogs. What I was told was that alot more dogs that are being raw 'barf' (mostly just meat) fed are now being seen in her clinic with cancer, and she does think supplementation is good - however, it's darn difficult to find a supplement that is in moderation and doesn't go overboard, imo. Due to severe food allergies, we dont' have access to an ideal vitamin supplement - but I do have something I am using. Personally, I prefer human vitamins from well respected sources as I just don't trust "dog" supplements. So, there's another difficulty in acquiring a product that is appropriate for much smaller dogs. Too much supplements - vitamin - maybe even more the minerals - can be very bad and dangerous. But, too little, as in all meat/bone may in fact be rising the incident of cancer. Her info at this point is just what she has noticed in her practice, so there isn't 'proof', but it sure is worth considering in my opinion. I try hard for 'moderation' b/c I think that either extreme can lead for more oppurtunity for negative results. As my dogs get stabilized, and I will finally be able to acquire my Hav, then I want to consult her with raising a healthy dog on home prepared, and then I can find out more about other options for vitamins.
But in the meantime, my 'moderation' stance is both reflective in regards to vaccines as well as food. No, I'm not a vet, and not nearly as smart as many others who really are trying to get the true picture. This is my viewpoint only that comes from alot of years watching the human scientist tell us things like "vit E is a miracle vitamin" only to come back years later and tell us that taking more than 200 mg of vit E a day can lead to more severe health issues". (This dosage is for humans) So, moderation regarding the food means not going to the extreme of only feeding meat/bones and wondering where these doggies are going to get their micronutrients from. By the way, are these dog that are being fed meat/bone only -- are they getting the whole animal? The eyes, the brain, the intestines? Most aren't - most of us are far to squimish for that and just give meat/bones with a little organ added on top. This isn't a balanced meal at all, imo.

For what it's worth (and may be worth very little to most of you), but I do feed well cooked veggies to my guys. I also believe that small amounts of fruit for dogs are just as they are for us. There are a lot of phyto-nutrients in whole foods - and as long as you educate yourself on what not to give (and some veggies I limit severely in their diet due to nutrition uptake issues), then my personal opinion is that my dogs do acquire these micro-nutrients.

Again, still stating my personal feelings, I don't like the idea of their consuming bone unless it is ground. Lots of people do this, but I am not comfortable with the risk. A dog can pull meat off of a large bone, which helps his jaw muscles and teeth, but consuming unground bones do have risks. Besides possible obstruction/perforation, there is the risk of breaking teeth. I should know, as mine each have at least one 4th premolar broken (seems to be the first one to go). Some have been removed, and one dog actually has a root canal - which may/may not still have to be removed. Will find out more with the upcoming dental cleaning.

I think it's great that more people are getting educated about health for their dogs and their selves. But, I worry about blanket statements b/c many people hearing such things just won't take in all the relevant information and take shortcuts and won't take the time for education and prep. And, as far as no vaccines go at all, well, I don't think you will find any older people who lived thru the polio years that will tell you that no one should get the polio shot. Yes, it does come with risks. All things do. The question to ask is: where is the greater risk? and what risk am I best capable of managing? The big reason some kids are not being vaccinated today is the belief that since the 'herd' is generally vacinated, then the 'individual' will be mostly protected. "herd" immunity. Hmmm, that still doesn't mean that 'that' person/dog won't get sick just b/c "most" around him have been vaccinated.

Having went on a long rant that may turn many people off, I will finalize by saying that I still continue to read, research both of these issues. My mind is open to changes, and there is the possibility that I will come back on this board a few years down the road and say something else if I feel truely relevant information has surfaced to sway my opinion. But, I think this moderate stance is very likely where, I, personally will stay.

These are hot topics, and very important. If I offended anyone by my tone, then I apologize. I realize that I may come off sounding harsh, and it is not my intention. I'm just stating why I feel the way I do, and it can be difficult to print all this and still 'sound' nice in tone when it's just in email. So, I hope everyone takes my point of view not as a personal attack --especially to the original poster who has started this topic b/c I do not mean it this way, ok?
I am concerned the op will think this is an attack since she brought it up -- but please don't think so -- it is not an attack on you! :)
Maybe I do get too opinionated about these topics and maybe I should just :ban: myself from them. I guess it all hits too close to home for me since I struggle so much with the health of my two dogs and all their serious issues, and not knowing for sure what helps/hurts.
Actually my 10% organ is heart and liver but more heart than liver.
 
#19 ·
The thing that worries me is that to some degree we have to rely on people who do have more information and for me that's our vet. I've spoken with them about food and they recommend the high end foods that rate highly on dogfoodanalysis.com so I feel comfortable with what we're feeding. I do supplement their food following a consult we did with Sabine and our dogs don't have any health problems that we're aware of.

Some may think this naive but I tend to believe in moderation. The dogs get good food, regular vet check ups, lots of exercise and love, and their treats. Some of the treats are great and some are junk but they love them so they have them occasionally. I look at it like I do with my family, we eat a balanced diet but I'm not going to ban the ice cream and oreos.

I'm certainly not offended by anything that's been posted as I like hearing differing opinions, especially on topics of which I have virtually no personal knowledge.
 
#51 ·
The thing that worries me is that to some degree we have to rely on people who do have more information and for me that's our vet.
Chances are you have more information on diet than your vet does. They have so little time spent on learning about diet.
My vet actually told me to up the calcium intake when Bandit was pregnant. Had I not been on the net I would have listened to him and who knows what would have happened.
A gal I know who has been in dogs forever once told me that you can check to see if your dog is getting enough calcium by grinding up an egg shell and feeding that to your dog. If the shells show in the stool, the dog didn't need the calcium. If there's no shell showing in the stool, the dog's body needed the calcium and digested it
 
#20 ·
Interesting topic. I used to feed a prepared raw diet and my girls did very well on it. Unfortunately the only place we could get it was from the manufacturer's warehouse that was nearly an hour from our house and they weren't open on weekends so rushing around to get dog food got to be a coordination nightmare. I will admit that the girls did quite well on it though.
I could never do the true raw diet because I don't have the time since both of us work outside the home. Trying to make sure they get the exact percentages of each individual nutrient is more than I can take on. If they got sick, I'd be sure it was because they didn't get their 10% of whatever for the week. My DH and I don't put that much analysis and thought into our own meals. I also cannot simply throw a chicken neck in each bowl and watch them take it out and eat it on the tile or the carpet. Yikes. I'm also not going to put up 3 ex-pens for them to eat in or be prepared to launder the blankets or mats that they eat on each night.
I would like to go back to a prepared raw if I can find one that the girls like and that I can buy closer to home. I tried NV medallions but the smell of them makes me nauseous for some reason.
I admire those who can do a raw, from scratch diet for their dogs and cats. It just wouldn't work for me.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Kimberly-The homeopath was magda aquila.

First, if it came across, I was telling people to only feed raw and never vaccinate, I did not mean to-personally I have one dog on raw, 2 on kibble and toppings, and mine have all received some vaccines. Also I did not attend her vaccination seminar. I was only saying the little snip it she shared. I am personally against vaccinating dogs so much cause my Isabelle (I have shared this several times) had an allergic reaction to the lepto that she wasn't suppose to get in the first place. I also lost a childhood cat to vaccinations but Isabelle's puppy reaction made me do more research and make my own choices.

I was sharing one nutritionist view that I previously said. And I am not offended by anyone sharing their views Chasza. Shoot you could tell me you have a gorgeous dog that eats el roy for 10 years and I wouldn't rush out to buy it for my own dog! Each of us are advocates for our dogs and I know with everything what works for one dog doesn't work for all. I am just sharing the view that I received yesterday and I found interesting. I have heard this all before but I have been able to see it work on a dog with severe allergies that took obedience class with Dash. I saw the transformation first hand so hence I wanted to go to hear her in person. It all started for him as a puppy when he was getting all his vaccinations. He started by chewing his paws, then hot spots, several trips to the vet, missing lots of hair, he was only eating science diet, getting shots each month, etc. Once again only one example but seeing his change, made me think wow and all it was was no shots and simple raw.

As to me, my dogs are all pretty healthy- all 3 of them actually. Belle had to have teeth removed this year (8 of them) unfortunately that is common in middle aged maltese. She has been on raw medallions and a few RMB for about a year so hopefully it is more preventative. My other two are on kibble with toppings that I make. Dora I go back and forth and give her raw about 1-2 days a week. Dash could gain some weight but he is so full of energy and happy in life that that has been a problem since he was a puppy. I know a lot of it is genetics and we talked about that yesterday but I do believe a lot of dog and people health problems have a lot to do what we put in ourselves as well.

As to vaccinations- all of my dogs have received one year boosters and then that is it. As further adults, 3 year rabies. Nothing else. That is my personal choice and I think that is something everyone has to decide and RESEARCH themselves. I remember being told by a vet that if I didn't give bordatella that my dogs would get kennel cough, etc. A lot of it is what we don't know. Isabelle is going on 7 and never had kennel cough and she goes to places with many dogs a few times a week. I kind of think of it like the flu shot, we all have to decide what is right for us based on our own health, surroundings, etc.

As to rushing out to join the band wagon. Dash and Dora had kibble last night and Belle had her same medallions. I ordered a few books but I didn't rush out to buy chicken backs ;) I know there is a lot of things said about raw but each person has to do their own research. I believe that regardless of what you feed or what shots you give, you are responsible for your dog and me for mine.

Ann- I agree with you if you believe in your vet. Unfortunately with all the places I have lived, I have only had one vet that gave good advice. Every other vet I have gone to sells SD right in their office and pushes it and pushes the vaccines. My current vet does the same but he respects my decision to make decisions and thought my dogs were in great health so he just doesnt push it on me. It is often times about the bottom line and that is money.
 
#23 ·
Seeing as this is our first experience with dogs, and a vet, I really think we got lucky. She was recommended by a neighbor who also takes her dog there and since then I've come across many others who go there and are very happy. Our vet only sells Royal Canin and didn't even recommend it to me when I first brought Scooter in. I'm going to ask questions about vaccinations when we go in on Wednesday, not quite sure what to ask but I'm going to try to get a list together beforehand.

I appreciate all of the info that's posted on the forum, I've learned so much!
 
#25 ·
Kathy, do you remember the seminar we attended at UC Davis a few years ago? They discussed the studies of the raw eaters and gave a percentage (which escapes me now, but it was on the high end) that shed salmonella on their faces and in the yard (via feces). It is a bit different because raw meat in bowls and cutting boards goes directly into the dishwasher or is washed immediately and isn't allowed to be placed all over the house, whereas my dogs are. :)
 
#27 · (Edited)
Keep in mind that there are studies that show that dogs that were fed kibble, at times shed salmonella in their feces as well. To top it off dogs that were fed raw, some had salmonella in their feces and some didn't. The study was not very conclusive on anything in fact.
 
#26 ·
By the way, are these dog that are being fed meat/bone only -- are they getting the whole animal? The eyes, the brain, the intestines? Most aren't - most of us are far to squimish for that and just give meat/bones with a little organ added on top. This isn't a balanced meal at all, imo.
The question is are you getting anything any different from kibble though?
 
#28 ·
In my handout she suggested for the 10% organs to be 5% liver and 5% other organ meat including heart, pancreas, etc. But she specifically wrote not all liver but a combination. There are places that grind up everything. The link I placed before you can even get the pelt included if you want. But they say in the wild dogs would not eat certain things as well. My obedience instructor has fed whole rabbits to her bernese to see what they will eat and she said some things they wouldnt eat- I remember one being the lower intestines.

Ann-I think you did luck out, I went to a vet that I told no lepto and whether it was a mess up or what not with Belle, they gave her the series that had lepto and that is when the whole thing started with me.
 
#33 ·
Like in all things, there are people who live at the extremes. Although I feed raw, I don't go to the extreme of the prey model. I definitely believe in a balance. If the raw got too expensive to keep up, I'm simply switch one meal a day to raw and one kibble.

The problem is there is so much misinformation/myths/unknows about raw, kibble and cooked (well not so much cooked), that it makes it amost impossible to feel 100% secure in what you feed your dog. Oddly enough I worry more about what I feed my dog than what I feed myself. I'm pretty sure there will never be a truely reliable 10yr study done because both sides are afraid of what they'll find.
 
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