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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 11:33 PM
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I’m completely pro-vaccination (DS is immune suppressed and relies on the immunity of others) but I do think this particular vaccination is different.

I was cautious because it was our first puppy and there were a lot of unknowns, and at the time being cautious seemed to mean giving the vaccination. I was naive about the risks. Our vet did explain them when we were discussing our options, but I didn’t know about the frequency of complications until I was researching immunizations and titers before our puppy’s 1 year boosters.

I don’t think I’d do it again, with our dog now or a new puppy in the future, but I can’t regret the decision I made to vaccinate at the time. I’m thankful we didn’t have any problems.

Last edited by EvaE1izabeth; 03-09-2019 at 11:39 PM.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 10:49 AM
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Interesting article by a mom with immune suppressed child.

https://thinkingmomsrevolution.com/d...ct-cancer-kid/
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 12:00 PM
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Interesting article by a mom with immune suppressed child.

https://thinkingmomsrevolution.com/d...ct-cancer-kid/
My point was in response to the mention of someone comparing the vaccine to childhood vaccination. As someone who also believes in childhood vaccination, I was saying that I now see this particular vaccine as different.

I wonít get into a big thing about immunizations because we have not been brainwashed by the big pharmaceutical companies; my son HAS contracted rare infections and has spent months out of school because of his inability to fight them. Multiple times. Certainly people are welcome to make their own choices for their families, I donít cast judgement, but Iím thankful for vaccinations that do protect my family.

While itís important to consider all sides, all of those sides should also be represented by experts. I have to look at this article as a frustrated mother deserving of empathy and compassion not as an argument against vaccines.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 12:28 PM
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This article is a perfect example why you need actual science education in order to understand complex things like vaccination, one of the worst side effects of the information age is the "death of expertise." People read a little information they find online, and think they understand complex and important systems like the sensitization and function of the immune system.

This woman in the linked article clearly does not understand how the immune system works, what "hygiene theory" is, or how vaccines prime an immune system to fight a nascent infection. There is a reason that vets or doctors go to medical/veterinary school for years, to understand the complex set of risks/benefits that come with every medicine/vaccine. There is no free lunch in nature, and they understand that often the perfect is the enemy of the good. Anybody who tells you that no risk is acceptable is just wrong, and is living a fantasy world, everything has risks, even doing nothing. The data and statistics have shown over and over that vaccinations have been the greatest saver of lives in history and has prevented untold suffering in both dogs and people.

Unlike my much more compassionate wife, I do judge people that don't vaccinate, with the obvious exception of optional vaccines.

It's perfectly natural and good to ask questions and challenge from your vet or doctor, as EvaElizabeth can attest, I've yelled at doctors for not answering my questions about my son on more than one occasion. It's not your job to be an expert of medicine, but it is your job to be an expert on your child/dog.

Listen to your doctor and your vet, who has read the scientific studies, listened to experts in the field, and understands the complex interplay of risks and rewards that comes through years of experience. Of course it goes without saying, you should have a vet that you trust and respect. Don't listen to fear-mongers and articles from sites like the former, who come up with half baked theories and conspiracies.
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Last edited by aroq; 03-10-2019 at 12:30 PM.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 03:12 PM
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[QUOTE=aroq;1427910Listen to your doctor and your vet, who has read the scientific studies, listened to experts in the field, and understands the complex interplay of risks and rewards that comes through years of experience. Of course it goes without saying, you should have a vet that you trust and respect. Don't listen to fear-mongers and articles from sites like the former, who come up with half baked theories and conspiracies.[/QUOTE]

Everyone is entitled to their views on vaccinations, however how do you find a vet you can trust and respect? Why do all the vets in my area continue to vaccinate dogs yearly when the AAHA changed their guidelines in 2011 to be every 3 years? Why do vets not mention titers or the vaccine protocols by Jean Dodds and Ron Schultz? All these vets went to vet school. Which one do you believe? This frustrated mom may not be the person to get advice from, but vets and doctors are not always the best source either. I have a nephew with a lifelong issue because my sister trusted a doctor to operate on her newborn with a rare condition when he should have referred her to an expert. I will continue to question vets and doctors and not blindly put my trust in them.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 03:50 PM
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We got Smokey his lepto booster last week. We live in a suburb that's attached to a big city on one side and a rural area on another and I want him to have as much protection as possible. He had no side effects from the vaccine(s). I think of it this way: My kids are vaccinated. (However, I did not know that Havanese can have side effects, or it would have weighed into my decision.)
Our kids have vaccines, and they should. But there has been much more research in terms of how often boosters are needed. They don't give booster shots annually "just because". the ONLY annual vaccine I know of for humans is flu, and that is because the virus keeps changing.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 07:41 PM
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Iíll admit, while I am adamantly pro-vaccine, pro-science and my children are 100% vaccinated on schedule, the animal world seems a little murkier, especially with regard to boosters. I canít say I want to rely on Dodd. I want multiple opinions, studies, etc. Not one dr with a following. It reminds me of Andrew Wakefield and here we have a measles outbreak with humans. THAT SAID, it seems animals truly have been over vaccinated. Probably because tons of research and safety and efficacy studies go into human vaccines, and the attitude is GIVE ALL THE VACCINES to dogs because obviously no one wants rabies. So itís very confusing to know what to do. Iíve heard recommendations may change to booster every three yrs instead of yearly. Now Iím concerned about this Leptospirosis vaccine. If itís prevalent in my area I might do it. Iíll have an epidemiologist friend look over any studies I find. Thatís the thing. The average person cannot educate themselves as to bias, correlation vs causation etc when reviewing a scientific study. Maybe in a year more info will be available before Iím supposed to booster my dog?
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 08:56 PM
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The AAHA has already changed the core vaccine protocol to every 3 years, however many vets still booster every year anyway. Titers can also be done if you are in doubt.

https://www.aaha.org/pet_owner/aaha_...ion_guidelines.

Melissa, hope this helps with your booster decision next year.
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 11:39 PM
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I don't have a choice about giving Perry the DHLPP - it's a requirement annually in Uganda (I tried to get out of it with titers, but run the risk of not being able to take him out or bring him back in if someone wants to be strict, so he gets it annually) along with the annual rabies (I'd prefer to give the 3 year). So far he's been fine with the vaccine even though I worry every year when I have to give it to him. The best I can do is stagger the rabies and the DHLPP a couple of weeks apart.
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 08:21 AM
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I don't have a choice about giving Perry the DHLPP - it's a requirement annually in Uganda (I tried to get out of it with titers, but run the risk of not being able to take him out or bring him back in if someone wants to be strict, so he gets it annually) along with the annual rabies (I'd prefer to give the 3 year). So far he's been fine with the vaccine even though I worry every year when I have to give it to him. The best I can do is stagger the rabies and the DHLPP a couple of weeks apart.
Yes, the final decision is going to be different for every dog in every family. Like spay/neuter, there is no one-size-fits-all answer. It's just important to learn as much as you can, and make an INFORMED decision based on what you think is best in your situation. And in the case of vaccines like Lepto, Lyme, KC and flu, which are only partially effective, don't ASSUME that your dog is "safe" even if you decide to give them. Still take ALL the other precautions you would, even if your dog had NOT received the vaccine.
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