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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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Show Quality Puppies

What do you as breeders do with your show quality puppies in the event that you are not able to keep them and show them yourselves?

I hate to stir the pot again, but I have gotten the feeling that most "breeders" are selling all puppies with limited registration regardless of their confirmation quality. In another thread where a similar topic was discussed, one breeder who is breeding double champion puppies mentioned that he only sells puppies with limited registration. What about the show quality puppies? Surely, two championAlso parents should produce show quality puppies some of the time. He also mentioned in another thread that he, through his dogs, has produced hundreds of puppies. If this breeder knows who he is, I'd love to hear from him. Otherwise, I'd like to get some input from other breeders.

Just to put your minds at ease, I have no plans to breed either of my puppies.

Also, I apologize for causing waves in otherwise calm waters, but I've never been afraid to ask the hard questions.
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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 09:27 PM
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Leah,
I think there are many "show quality" puppies sold as pets. Unless the breeder and the buyer agree that the puppy will be shown to championship (in which case they will usually co-own), the puppy that is placed as a pet will have limited registration. IMHO, the breeder will also have a spay/neuter clause and not send the AKC papers until shown proof of the puppy's spay/neuter.

Carole
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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 09:41 PM
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I can tell you in my experiences, there have been way more interest in pet homes than show homes.
In most litters, there is usually only one or two true show quality pups. Usually breeders keep them, or the 1st pick puppy goes to the stud owner.
So this doesn't leave many show quality pups left. And yes, I have sold puppies as 'pets' then saw that same pup once it was all grown up and kicked myself for not keeping it! But I can tell you, it's very hard to truly know how a puppy is going to turn out when it is just 10 weeks old. So many things can change as the pup grows-


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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by mellowbo View Post
Leah,
I think there are many "show quality" puppies sold as pets. Unless the breeder and the buyer agree that the puppy will be shown to championship (in which case they will usually co-own), the puppy that is placed as a pet will have limited registration. IMHO, the breeder will also have a spay/neuter clause and not send the AKC papers until shown proof of the puppy's spay/neuter.
IMHO, a spay/neuter clause with a limited registration is redundant. With this attitude, I see this breed dying. Who is to say that all show quality dogs will become champions? One of my mother's best producers never got her last major. She produced five champions, but was not a champion herself. You are short changing the breed by not allow dogs with potential to reach their potential.

May I add, that I purchased a show quality Bichon with an unlimited registration. As much as I love Havs, Bichons may be where I'll have to set my sights in the show ring.

Last edited by Leah; 02-10-2010 at 10:00 PM.
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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Kate, I hope you're not letting the "pet" market determine how you sell your show quality puppies. When you say the pick of the litter goes to the stud owner, I'm assuming that you're trading a puppy for the stud fee. What about the people who own the stud dog and are selling the show prospects as pets just to sell puppies and limit any potential competition? That's what iriitates the life of out me. How would someone like me ever have a chance to involved in this breed and contribute good quality dogs? I can't see it as anything other than selfishness when someone is willing to work and contribute positively to the breed.
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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 10:26 PM
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Leah-
Did you contact all the show breeders in your area? Have you been to the local shows and met them in person? Would you consider going out of state for a pup? I can guarantee you there are plenty of breeders out there that are willing to sell show quality pups- you have to be willing to wait for the right breeder and the right pup. It isn't going to happen overnight.
My personal experience, with only having one litter a year (except for one year when I did have two litters) the ones I have felt are the 'best of the best' I have kept for myself. I didn't have anyone during those particular litters looking for a show pup.
Yes the breeders that have multiple litters a year will have more show puppies. I see them advertised frequently. Have you joined any of the Havanese forums on the Yahoo groups?
I can tell you this breed is nowhere near dying- they are getting more and more popular as each year passes. Almost 7 years ago when I was looking for my first Hav, a pet female, now that was hard to find! But what we need to do is keep the quality of the breed up. Make sure that dogs are getting into the hands of the right people. I have gotten hundreds of emails looking for 'a cheap Hav to breed'. Ugh. For example, I just puppy sat for a Hav that is from a breeder in my area that does not show, does not health test, just cranks out puppies. And while the puppy that I watched was adorable, she was waay to small for the standard and had some pretty horrible CD in her front legs. So sad.
So please understand, while you may have all the right intentions for showing and breeding (although I thought I remember you saying that showing wasn't something you wanted to do)- we get inquiries every day from people who don't have the right intentions. It's hard when you hear, "I may want to breed someday, ya maybe I will try showing, etc" to know who is serious and who isn't. Even in your posts, I am not sure exactly where you want to go with your puppies. You talk alot about breeding/show quality etc, yet say you don't want to show or breed, but then you get a full registration Bichon, and suddenly you do want to show etc. It gets very confusing!


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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 10:48 PM
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In my opinion, and I feel it is an opinion shared by many breeders on here, our dogs, no matter the quality, are pets first. If they turn out well enough to show and breed, GREAT!! but that is not my first priority. I breed to produce happy, healthy dogs, with great temperaments, and that fit our breed standard. I wont sell puppies to a home where they will solely be a show dog. I require my puppies to be pets. If they are shown, great.

And yes, two show quality parents will most of the time produce a litter with show quality puppies in it. BUT, again, producing the next BIS winning dog is not my purpose, showing is something I do on the side that helps me make sure I am on the right track when it comes to our standard, producing healthy, correct dogs is what we should all strive for, not producing champions.

I, along with other breeders on here, will sell to show/breeding homes. My Harley(the boy on the cover of the magazine) went to a show home. His owner had only ever owned one show dog before, a Great Dane, BUT after getting to know her very well, and getting a very good feel for her intentions(which is to show, and *maybe* down the line get a girl to *maybe* try her hand at breeding after she has spent a few years learning the breed) I felt confident placing a show puppy with her. Did I co-own him? Of course.

Also, I too place my pet puppies with a limited reg. AND a spay/neuter contract. The reason for this is that a limited reg. just means a dog's puppies can't be registered....It doesn’t mean the dog can't be bred, and it dosn't mean that the owners couldn't advertise pups as "from AKC reg. parents". The limited reg. helps to a certain extent, but nothing prevents unwanted breedings like a few snips in very special places

Natasha of

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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 10:48 PM
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A responsible havanese breeder will want to control, to their best ability, the future of their breed. To let anyone just take a puppy, and breed it wherever, can often lead to health issues. I, for one, pray havanese breeders are very selective! It is terrible to see cd, liver, heart, skin, eye, etc. problems with any dog!
As Katie said, I'm sure there are opportunities out there. It take patience and tons of research.
It is not about being selfish at all, it is about caring. Again, as Katie said, the breed is FAR from dying out!

On edit, well said Natasha!

Carole
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Be yourself, everyone else is taken.

Last edited by mellowbo; 02-10-2010 at 10:51 PM.
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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mellowbo View Post
A responsible havanese breeder will want to control, to their best ability, the future of their breed. To let anyone just take a puppy, and breed it wherever, can often lead to health issues. I, for one, pray havanese breeders are very selective! It is terrible to see cd, liver, heart, skin, eye, etc. problems with any dog!
As Katie said, I'm sure there are opportunities out there. It take patience and tons of research.
It is not about being selfish at all, it is about caring. Again, as Katie said, the breed is FAR from dying out!

On edit, well said Natasha!
You are assuming that EVERYBODY is irresponsible.
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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgilityHav View Post
In my opinion, and I feel it is an opinion shared by many breeders on here, our dogs, no matter the quality, are pets first.

You've said this before and I've explained to you that "pet" in reference to a discussion about confirmation refers to the show confimation quality of the dog. A dog is either show quality or pet quality. They are ALL pets in your sense of the word.
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