Dam with minor hip dysplasia bred to sire with good hips - Page 2 - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
Ask A Breeder Have questions about a breeder or what a breeder should do? Questions about what to look for in a breeder? This is a great area to ask.

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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom King View Post
I would need to see the xrays. To be very honest, the rating is subjective enough that poor positioning during the xray can make the hips look worse than they are. I do want to be clear that I'm not supporting the small breed reasoning, but we've looked at hundreds of Havanese hip xrays, and have heard of more than a couple of prelims as dysplastic get an excellent rating later-all because of the poor preliminary xrays.

For this reason, I'd want to see the xrays. Havanese legs can easily be pulled out of the socket enough that the person doing the rating can't be expected to do anything but give it a dysplastic rating. Also, if the dog is tilted to one side, it can look like the socket is not large enough to get a better rating.

If the xray had good positioning, and looked less than ideal, I'd pass. If it was an xray poor enough that I really couldn't tell, I would ask for better xrays. Many times, the only difference between a Good, and an Excellent is the quality of the xray. It's hard to get an excellent without putting the dog under. We often send an xray off, knowing it will get a Good, even though we also know that if the xray had more perfect positioning, that the dog would get an Excellent.

Pam gets xrays emailed to her often to ask what the breeder should do, and I hear more "get a better xray" more than anything else.
But, Tom, as a breeder, if you got "dysplastic" X-rays on a planned breeding dog, and you thought it was positioning (and I KNOW that can happen!) wouldn't you go back and get better X-rays rather than breed a dog that you thought to be dysplastic? This breeder believes the dysplastic dx enough that she reported it to the potential buyer.... I guess we need to give her credit for that!

I know, both from Pam and other breeders, how bad positioning (or cranking on the legs of a small breed dog) can make good hips look bad. A friend recently had final hips done on a bitch that she had recently purchased. Before purchase, they had done preliminary hips at 18 months, that looked great. The vet who did the 2 year old X-rays clearly didn't know what they were doing. Her spine is totally crooked in the image, with the predictable outcome that one hip looks out, and they are TOTALLY asymmetrical. She bit the bullet and paid for another set of films from a different vet, and the bitch has absolutely fine hips. Rated "excellent" by OFA. But that middle set of X-rays? Wow!

But I would THINK that if someone serious about the breed doubted the accuracy of the the X-rays, they'd go get another set or at least a second opinion rather than just breeding the dog anyway...


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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 12:12 PM
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I don't disagree with that at all. It's just a shame that so few breeders understand the value of xray quality. I'm sure that many dogs have been eliminated from the breeding pool because of poor xrays. We first started looking at xrays when a breeder friend of ours had a dog that got Mild Dysplasia on Preliminary, and then soon after, got an Excellent once the dog passed 2 years old. On that particular dog, the xrays showed that it was obviously the same dog, but positioning in the two xrays was really poor in one, and almost perfect in the other.
Guess I should have continued reading. This is exactly what happened with my friend's bitch. (though in her case, the prelims were good, and the 2 year old set was obviously bad positioning)

Will OFA change a rating if a person sends in a set with bad positioning, but then later gets a better set? (based on positioning)


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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 08:41 PM
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I'm pretty sure that only a very small percentage of breeders know anything at all about the difference the xray can make, and just accept what they get. It would be best if it was cut and dry, but it's not.

Pam is there when any xrays are taken, and if one is not good, she'll get another one made while she's there.

You can reapply with another xray for another rating, but if you know what you're looking at, you can save some time, cost, and trouble by getting a better one to start with.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-01-2018, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom King View Post
I'm pretty sure that only a very small percentage of breeders know anything at all about the difference the xray can make, and just accept what they get. It would be best if it was cut and dry, but it's not.

Pam is there when any xrays are taken, and if one is not good, she'll get another one made while she's there.

You can reapply with another xray for another rating, but if you know what you're looking at, you can save some time, cost, and trouble by getting a better one to start with.
Good to know that people can at least get it corrected, though, if they realize later that it might have been a positioning issue!


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