CAN A BREEDER REALY CONTROL? - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-08-2011, 01:30 AM Thread Starter
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CAN A BREEDER REALY CONTROL?

I have a contract that states I must spay by feb .
I do not think it is a good time for my dog to be spayed.
Do I have any rights?
Or does it just mean she can not be registered as Havanese?

Maddie at 5mo old
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post #2 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-08-2011, 05:34 AM
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Maddie would be 6 months old. Why would you not want to spay at that time?



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post #3 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-08-2011, 08:21 AM
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I just read this question, and I read your other question about full vs limited registration.

In all honesty, it sounds like the breeder did the right thing by selling her to you under limited registration and by requiring a spay contract. On one hand, you are saying she might "surprise us all" so you would like to hold off getting her spayed. But on the other hand, you are concerned because she has issues with her skin, and because she may be on the small side.

If you do get her spayed, you can still do many things with her in the show ring. Just not conformation.

And I'm going to say something really controversial here, that will probably hurt your feelings. So I will apologize in advance, not just to you, but to everyone who I offend...

If you want to start breeding dogs, Maddie is not the dog to start with. She is your first purebred dog, and starting a good breeding program takes TIME. You need knowledge of many, many things. I would suggest getting her spayed like your contract states, traning her for the show ring, and start attending dog shows. Start meeting breeders, handlers, and other knowledgable people in the industry. Then, in another year or two, you can work with a reputable breeder (who you will know from your time in the show ring). They will sell you PART ownership of a show-quality dog and the spay contract will look MUCH different from the one you have with Maddie.

In all honesty, although I have not seen the contract, nothing about it sounds "fishy" to me. Well, them asking for more money for full registration does - that would scare me a bit. But the actual contract requiring Maddie to be spayed by February and limiting registration, that is normal. The vast majority of dogs coming from responsible breeders are sold this way.

I know it sounds fun and interesting to show Maddie, and I'm sure you will both have a great time. But your first purebred dog should not be the stock for a breeding program.

Again, just my opinion, and I'm sorry if I've hurt your feelings or offended anyone. But I will stand firmly behind that belief!
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post #4 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-08-2011, 08:30 AM
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I completely agree with you. Also, it would be tremendously irresponsible to breed a dog whose parents had had zero health testing (nothing is posting on OFFA) and had already had some health problems itself.

Also, I wouldn't get into breeding to make money. Aside from all the expenses (if you do it right) there is no guarantee you will sell the pups. Havanese breeders are not a rarity nowadays.
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post #5 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-08-2011, 09:51 AM
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I agree, from everything you've told us, Maddie is a darling pet, and probably has what it takes to be a wonderful little agility dog. But at one time or another, you have told us about a problem with one of her legs, her poor coat and her skin problems and the fact that she is probably going to mature under size. These are not the attributes of a breeding animal.

If you wanted to postpone spaying Maddie for a health reason, I suspect your breeder would work with you. If the reason is to breed her, I'd be VERY surprised if her breeder would change her mind. So if you DID breed her, you'd be producing puppies from a line of dogs without health testing, whose mother has already had health problems as a puppy and who are not registered. Could you sell them to someone who doesn't know any better? Probably. But then you would be part of the problems in the Havanese breed rather than the solution.

Follow the advice of the other folks who have already posted. Enjoy her as the wonderful pet she is, and if you are seriously interested in developing a breeding PROGRAM (a VERY expensive, time consuming endevour!!!) find yourself an experienced mentor with an established breeding program that you respect to help you on your way.


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post #6 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-08-2011, 01:49 PM
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I have been keeping to myself on this because there are so many patient and concerned voices out here. So let me just give you a different view. Do you understand your contract. Some contract's allow the Breeder to take the dog back for breech of contract. Also I know show breeders who have taken dogs back usually it is a show contract and the other never did anything to prove they were going to show the dog. How contracts are written and inforced are different state. You need to be careful.

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post #7 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-08-2011, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzi View Post
I have a contract that states I must spay by feb .
I do not think it is a good time for my dog to be spayed.
Do I have any rights?
Or does it just mean she can not be registered as Havanese?
Why do you not think its a good time?

Kara
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post #8 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-08-2011, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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I am planning on spaying her. I decided that a while ago. I would like to wait tell after her first heat. I have herd it is better for her . My vet says it does not matter. I guess I am just not ready. Zoey and her play hard and I would be worried she might hurt herself. Although it might be a better time to have her foot looked at to see if it can be fixed and I would know sooner than later about the SA. I am planning on going to a show in portland this month and have talked with several breeders who will be their. And then their is another one in feb that is close by. I plan on bring Zoey to let professionals take a look at her.
Can I look up to see if Maddies breeder even registered the litter some how?

Maddie at 5mo old
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post #9 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-08-2011, 07:10 PM
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You can look up the parents on the AKC website, but the litter might not be registered until after the spaying/neutering. My breeder files the paperwork upon proof of neutering.
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post #10 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-09-2011, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzi View Post
I have a contract that states I must spay by feb .
I do not think it is a good time for my dog to be spayed.
Do I have any rights?
Or does it just mean she can not be registered as Havanese?
Why did you sign the contract if you didn't agree with it? I do agree with you though about waiting to spay and I have asked my puppy buyers to wait until they are over at least a year old. That however does not change the contract you signed.
You bet a breeder can come after you and a buyer can go after the breeder if the terms of the agreement aren't met.

Jan
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