How accurate can breeders assess puppy's full grown weight? - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2011, 01:21 AM Thread Starter
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How accurate can breeders assess puppy's full grown weight?

Hi there,

I'm getting ready to look for a puppy and I would love a Havanese on the smaller end of the standard. I am curious if the breeders only guess the puppy's full grown weight by the weight of the parents or if there are other factors they use to assess full-grown weight. How accurate are experienced breeders usually? What do they look at to determine their assessments?

I checked out another thread about temperament of smaller havs and it looked like they were consistent with the breed which is great! Again, I'm not looking for a "teacup" or tiny havanese. I would just like one on the smaller side of the range.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2011, 07:27 AM
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Reggie's parents were 11 and 12 pounds I believe so the breeder said he would be between 10 and 12 pounds, and at first the vet said the same thing. He gained weight very slowly and as the vet said he is simply petite all over, and is now around 7 pounds and at 9 months will probably not grow much more, so clearly the breeder/vet were not acurate! He is noticeably smaller all around then other havs I have seen (people always comment on how small he is), but he is totally healthy! I didn't care how big or small he was, but it is convienient having a little guy! I read somewhere that below 7 pounds is too small to be healthy for the breed so I am glad he made it to that weight!

-Haley, one of Reggie's humans!!!
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2011, 07:56 AM
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It's impossible to predict accurately, but if a puppy is consistantly smaller than its littermates, and is fine boned, you would be able to tell that it will be on the light end. A heavier boned pup is not going to stay small.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2011, 10:31 AM
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I have one of Tom and Pam's pups, and his parents, Posh and Razzle, are, I believe in the 11-12 lb range, isn't that right, Tom? Kodi ended up a trim 16 1/2 lbs, at the top of the height range. I remember that when we were assessing the pups, Pam had said that Kodi was "heavier boned" than the other pups, though I had no idea what that really meant. But I wanted a dog as a performance dog, not for conformation showing or breeding, so I really didn't care about his size. The pup in the litter who was clearly much smaller than the others was not a candidate for me for other reasons, though I'm sure he made someone else a perfect pet.

I'm sure Pam and Tom knew that Kodi wasn't going to be a "small" Hav, but I'm not sure they could have predicted he would get as large as he did, either.

Oh, and Kodi turned out to be EXACTLY what I wanted... He's not only the love of my life, but is also an AMAZING performance dog in both Obedience and Agility.


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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2011, 11:23 AM
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my breeder KNEW Tillie was going to be on the small side. IT was NOT in any way why we chose her however!! It just happened that way! Because her breeder knew she was going to be on the small side, she would NOT give her to anyone that was planning to breed as she wanted what was best for Tillie and didn't want her to be bred. It worked in our favor for sure!! she was 14 weeks when we found her and weighed about 3 lbs...
Tillie has very light 'bird bones' and seems to have topped out at 8 1/2 lbs, which is a great weight for her! People are always surprised to pick her up and feel how light she really is! LOL

Tammy and Tillie
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2011, 05:05 PM
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I was the same way, I wanted the smaller end of average (but not teacup) I ended up with the Runt and boy is she a spitfire...lol
I think you can guess pretty close from the parent's size, I suppose diet could effect it, but Gucci is about the same size as her mama 9-10 lbs and I'm glad she's not heavier since I lug her around in a bag so much (dog carrier bag) and even 10 lbs gets heavy after awhile

Kara
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2011, 05:18 PM
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Maddie is on the small side about 9 lbs. She has a bunch of muscle but is much shorter than Zoey. She is so cute. Her breeder said all the puppys from that litter were small. I'm not sure if that mom and dad consistently have small puppies or not. Zoey is about 10 lbs but looks much bigger because she is taller.

Maddie at 5mo old
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2011, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom King View Post
It's impossible to predict accurately, but if a puppy is consistantly smaller than its littermates, and is fine boned, you would be able to tell that it will be on the light end. A heavier boned pup is not going to stay small.
Thanks Tom. Do you calculate what the "smaller end" or "larger end" is based on the parents or based on the standard of the breed?
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2011, 05:55 PM
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The Standard. All our breeding dogs are 10 1/2 to 12 1/2 pounds, so we don't have experience breeding any from outside that range. One dog several generations back in a pedigree, who was known to throw different sizes, is enough to increase the range of puppy size in spite of the parents' size, but it's still very hard to predict. We've had 1 % less than Standard, and 1 % over Standard. That's two each in a few over 200 puppies. Karen's Kodi is one of the 2 over. All four shared one Grandfather who has shown to throw a range of sizes. No need to ask me to name a name here, but it wasn't one of ours.

Relative bone size will tell you about as much as you will get to rely on. Puppy weight from birth until 12 weeks won't do it.

Last edited by Tom King; 11-04-2011 at 06:00 PM.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2011, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks so much Tom. I appreciate the help!
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