A question about a certain breeder's philosiphy - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-07-2008, 07:31 AM Thread Starter
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A question about a certain breeder's philosiphy

I dont want to put this breeders name/kennel name on the board, out of respect for them, but I do have a question. If you know who they are please dont post it.

I have been helping a potential puppy buyer find a good breeder(wanted a show puppy). She talked to me about a puppy, but we only had one I was helping her find one in her area, and there was one who i had talked to for a differnt reason, but who I knew was a good breeder. I gave her his/her e-mail adress. The puppy buyer later e-mailed me back and said this breeder didnt sell puppies to show homes. She kept them or they went to pet homes. I thought this was slightly...odd...but does anyone know why one might do this?


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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-07-2008, 07:37 AM
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Hi Natasha,
There are a couple of reasons why a breeder might do this. Mind you, I am not one who follows this philosophy.
I suspect there is some concern about placing their babies in homes where they are going to eventually be bred? There are so many risks involved in placing one of your babies in a show/breeding home, and so many things that can not turn out along the way, that maybe this breeder simply chooses to not place dogs in show homes.
They may also be very protective of their own lines, but I can't see how any progress can be made, and if so it would be at a slow crawl, since there are only a limited number of pups you can keep for yourself. But to each his own.
I place my show pups on co-ownerships and only with people I trust and know. I have also placed show quality pups in pet homes when it is the best thing for both owner and pup.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-07-2008, 08:27 AM
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The other thing you have to keep in mind also is that every time a breeder places a puppy in a show home, they are also entering into a mentoring relationship with that home. For a new person, the mentoring can be quite intense (especially if they have never shown a dog before!)....and there is no way that I can breed, show, groom, work, take care of dogs and mentor multiple people at the same time. So I am very selective about who gets one of my show puppies....not because I am selfish or trying to protect my lines, but because I want to make sure that I have the time, effort and energy to mentor my show homes properly and give them the support that they need. I don't like to spread myself too thin.

It could be that this breeder just does not have the desire to mentor someone right now. I know that my maltese mentor does not place her puppies in show homes because she just feels that it is too much work. Personally, I enjoy helping new people into the breed because if someone hadn't given me a chance a few years ago, I would not have the dogs that I have today. However, this person was also a horrible mentor...in fact no mentor at all...so I want to make sure that anyone that does have one of my puppies does not end up in the same situation. I hope this makes sense.

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-07-2008, 08:30 AM
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There are probably a lot of reasons and since they are the breeder, the reasons are valid to them. Did they ask why?
There might be something in the background of the puppy that the owner wants to watch over time to make sure it's not going to come forward and they're being very proactive.
It could be that they don't know the person and would be afraid someone they don't know would breed 5 or 6 times back to back or look at the puppy as a means to retirement instead of a loving pet.
It could be that the seller has had bad luck with show buyers in the past.
It could be that the seller is a really anxious person and would drive themselves crazy wondering if the dog is going to toe out, if a tooth is going to be a little crooked, etc.
I'm sure there are reasons I missed but this gives you an idea of what might be going on. The only way to know is to ask the breeder.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-07-2008, 08:30 AM
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That is so true Diane! It does take time and dedication to be a mentor.
The Havs I have placed in show homes have either gone to experienced show/breeders who are mentors themselves, or to people who live near my home, and I train and show the dogs myself. You are so right though, it does take a lot of time and effort, although it is worth every minute of it!
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-07-2008, 08:49 AM
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Also, many breeders have discovered that "show" homes end up being not the best, most loving places for their animals. Often people who show a lot of dogs keep too many to truly give them the love and attention that they need. I think you can keep tons of animals as long as you have help, so I'm not knocking anyone. And then there are the exceptional people who manage by themselves and they amaze me.

In my opinion, our dogs are only show/breeding animals for such a short time period. They are our pets their entire long lives and that takes priority in my opinion.

Oh and everyone, thanks for the mentor explanation. Would never have thought of that.

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-10-2008, 12:32 AM
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And some people just think showing is cruel and not useful. And some people may keep all the show puppies for themselves. I am not sure I would be alarmed.

I think all the answers above are great. And Im not a breeder so I shouldn't be answering. LOL
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-10-2008, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Melissa Miller View Post
And Im not a breeder so I shouldn't be answering. LOL
But Melissa, if you've ever been a potential "show home" you have the experience to answer.

I spent many, many months looking for my first show Havanese. In the interim, I'd gotten my first show dog, a Keeshond. I'd originally started looking for a pet dog for my girls. I'd created a "short list" of 10 breeds for us to investigate as my girls "first puppy." I'd had four dogs when they were born, but eventually when they were old enough, wanted them to experience my joy as a child of having their "own" dog. As my original four aged and passed, we were down to one old grouch, Baron, my 17-year old Pomeranian that just died in June.

We went to over 20 dog shows, meeting breeders, introducing the girls to the adults of a breed - no puppies - so that they could decide what they liked best. If we did visit a breeders home to see puppies, the rule was, "we don't take a puppy home today, we'll come back" All puppies are cute. Some grown dog breeds aren't. So I was extremely intentional in my research and search. Moreover, my girls are special needs, adopted babies from the foster system that didn't have the best in-utero life. I wanted dogs that could perhaps someday become therapy dogs or assistants to the girls should their disabilities ever become "significant."

When my lovely friend and Keeshond breeder offered me one of her "show" potential girls, the show bug bit me HARD and I fell in love with the sport of showing dogs and the possibility of some day becoming a breeder.

I started my Havanese search at the same time. But never updated the breeders that I'd placed pet puppy applications with as to WHY my desires had changed. All they saw was that a "pet" person, now wanted a "show" dog. A HUGE RED FLAG TO RESPONSIBLE BREEDERS. But being naieve, I didn't know that.

I ended up on a NATIONAL-DO-NOT-SELL-TO-LIST based on a personal interview report from some Havanese forum members. I was absolutely devastated. If it hadn't been for Katie and Elaine, I would have stopped my search all together. In the end, it's turned out for the best - I got to meet way more breeders than most potential "show" homes ever do. I learned a valuable lesson. More importantly, it's created some incredible friendships with Havanese breeders. Because to overcome what happened, these breeders and I had to honestly communicate. And in the process, we discovered personal similaries and have traits that we admire in each other. It was incredibly painful at the time and every once in a while my feelings still hurt when I remember what happened. But I have to keep it in perspective. Those who are friends now, didn't know me from shineola back then. And they take their stewardship of this breed to heart. And in the end that's what matters - our lovely, funny Havanese.

And besides the universe takes care of those people who deserve an upside smack on the head with a 2X4. The person who put me on the do-not-sell-to-list has been so busted by her former colleagues.

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