PUPPY BACK? - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
BREEDERS Breeders can show the health testing they do, the set up their dogs live in and all important information relating to being a breeder. DO NOT ADVERTISE PUPPIES HERE!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-25-2010, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
GrannyMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 132
Submit Photo: 1
Photo Submissions 0 Times in 0 Posts
PUPPY BACK?

I'm looking for my first Havanese puppy. The standard price seems to run $2ooo. Is it normal for pay that and give a puppy back too? I'm having a very hard time finding a puppy. The reputable breeders are making it very difficult to purchase a puppy. I understand their reasoning but what they are doing is pushing people to buy from not so reputable breeders.
GrannyMouse is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-25-2010, 10:20 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 27
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well, I think if you look around and talk to many different breeders you may be able to find a puppy for less than that. In my geographical area they seem to range from $900 (rare, but they are there and I have a good opinion of the breeders I've spoke to) to $1200 (more common) and all the way up to $1800. We are in the Northwest if that makes any difference. It seems like the breeders in the East are charging more. But again, this is only my experience and I'm a new to this.
puppyinmyyard is offline  
post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-25-2010, 10:47 PM
Bugsy's Mom
 
juliav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 4,341
Submit Photo: 3
Photo Submissions 6 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrannyMouse View Post
I'm looking for my first Havanese puppy. The standard price seems to run $2ooo. Is it normal for pay that and give a puppy back too?
I am not sure I understand the "puppy back". Are you trying to purchase a puppy with full AKC registration and rights to breed??? Most, no strike that, none of the reputable breeders will sell a puppy with full registration and breeding rights unless you plan to show your puppy to his/hers championship, do all the health testing and only then breed. They will also keep their name on registration papers until you receive the championship title. I am not sure how many of them will require a puppy back, it depends on the contract. Some reputable breeders charge the same for their show and pet puppies because they have above mentioned conditions on full registration. Some will charge more for show dogs, I think it depends on the breeder.

-Julia
juliav is offline  
 
post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-25-2010, 11:22 PM
Senior Member
 
pjewel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 8,941
Submit Photo: 3
Photo Submissions 41 Times in 25 Posts
I'm a bit confused by your post as well. What does puppy back mean? I have to agree with Julia about reputable breeders not selling puppies with full registration unless you show them to their championship. If it's a pet you're looking for, unless your living situation would suggest otherwise, you should be able to find a breeder who will sell you a puppy. Average pricing from breeders who do all the testing and stand behind their puppies is anywhere from $1500 - 2000. Of course there are some that are a little more, some a little less. If the price is a lot lower, I'd look into it further.

<b>Just Milo and me, and . . . </b>Bailey makes three . . . until Ruby said, "hey, what about me?"
Geri, Milo, Bailey and HRH Princess Ruby Tuesday

If you're thinking of getting a puppy, click here
http://www.photoshow.com/watch/YK8AH4rw
pjewel is offline  
post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-26-2010, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
GrannyMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 132
Submit Photo: 1
Photo Submissions 0 Times in 0 Posts
I am looking for a puppy to show. I think it would have been easier to adopt a child from China! I've had rude responses from breeders, unreasonable responses from breeders and completely ridiculous responses.

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but this is one of the ones I though rude:

I'd prefer a telephone conversation. I am very busy and can get more info by speaking with you directly. Try me at 555-555-5555 after 4pm.

I'm busy too!! Wouldn't a, "No, I don't have puppies." or "Yes, I do have puppies. Let's talk." be better?

This ones comes under ridiculous. I pointed out there were no champions in her pedigree:

I know when I first started in the Havanese breed, I wanted all show dogs with champion backgrounds. I have found some of my best dogs from people who do not show, I know now to look more at the dogs and their parents than what papers their grandparents may have had. Almost any dog can be shown to championship at 6-8 months, that cute puppy stage....but what does that dog look like at 1 year or 2 years, or 5 years from now? Not saying that I won't ever show again, I would take my dogs and put them up against anyone elses anytime. But this is just how I feel.

Unreasonable:

"If you don't finish her by 18 months you will have to give her to my handler to finish."

So wonder what happens if I lost my job?

I like this one too. I asked about show puppies and received the following answer: "I do. Where are you from?" When I responded that I lived in Virginia, I never heard back. Guess she didn't like people from Virginia.

I guess what I'm trying to say is breeders need to remember they started somewhere with their first dog. They weren't born showing and breeding Havanese. I'm also looking for my first dog and it is not easy. I can see where some people would just give up the hunt and buy from a backyard breeder or pet store.
GrannyMouse is offline  
post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-26-2010, 09:19 AM
Senior Member
 
hartman studio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 730
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 6 Times in 5 Posts
Hmmmm.. where to start with a reply. First let me say that Havanese breeders are very particular where they place their puppies. Most of these breeders breed because they LOVE the Havanese breed-not for profit. They also get very attached to their puppies and want to make sure they are placed in the best household possible. If you are only using email to inquire about puppies it is very impersonal. Most breeders want to talk with you to get a "feel" for what you are like and what are your expectations. Add to that you are asking for a "show" puppy with full breeding rights. They will want to know more about your intentions and experience. They are trying very hard to keep the Havanese breed healthy and with good temperments and not let this breed go the way of so many others that have become popular and overbred. Your remark that you would now buy from a mill or BYB because of your interactions with reputable breeders would not go over well. Are you now saying you would try to show one of those? Or are you just looking to breed? Either way this would be a red flag for breeders. I suggest if you are serious about showing you may want to find a reputable breeder that lives near you so they could mentor you.

Jocelyn, Mindy, Cocotini, and Candy


Truffles (1992-2009) We miss you!!
hartman studio is offline  
post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-26-2010, 09:32 AM
Senior Member
 
JASHavanese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: FLORIDA!
Posts: 4,657
Submit Photo: 1
Photo Submissions 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrannyMouse View Post
I'm looking for my first Havanese puppy. The standard price seems to run $2ooo. Is it normal for pay that and give a puppy back too? I'm having a very hard time finding a puppy. The reputable breeders are making it very difficult to purchase a puppy. I understand their reasoning but what they are doing is pushing people to buy from not so reputable breeders.
A typical price is normally 1800-2000, some selling for more. I would run like the wind if the price was lower than 1500 and to find good lines that are health tested at 1500 is rare. They may have had too many litters or they might have other things going on in their life and need to find homes quickly. Remember a breeder is a person with a life and not all breeders treat this as a business. Some do, many don't.
I'm a breeder and I will not buy with a contract of a puppy back as a general rule. First, how do I know that that puppy will turn out well enough for me to feel it should be bred? Don't let anyone put your into a position of compromising yourself or your values or the health of future dogs. If you do buy with a puppy back contract, make sure there is a clause in there that will let you back out of it should you feel the dog should not be bred.
With a puppy back clause the breeder basically winds up getting the initial price of the puppy, let's say 2000. Then they wind up getting another puppy for free that you could have sold for 2000, so the actual selling price of that puppy is 4000 plus your costs.
There are some who put into their contracts that they may use your dog three times for litters.
There has been one dog out of the litters I had that had it gone with full registration I would have wanted a puppy back. I had a choice of selling the puppy to a breeder or a loving home where I knew the match would be fantastic so I sold the puppy for less money to the non breeder and that puppy was everything I was looking for in conformation, personality, and health. Had they chosen full registration and shown her I would have been there every step of the way and made sure she was shown and bred to a great stud and I probably would have wound up still paying probably half price for the puppy even with a puppy back contract unless I was the one providing or paying for the stud service but I don't look at this as a business and there are some breeders who would probably think I was nuts for being so easy going.
I have a friend who is stuck in a contract with more than one breeding back and it's backfired big time on her. Others are in a puppy back situation and the dogs have heart problems with the breeder wanting their puppy back. You need a spay or neuter clause to keep you from this. There is no reason on this earth for bringing an unhealthy litter into this world. Everything in a puppy back contract needs to be clearly stated in a contract..every detail, even the smallest one, for the protection of future dogs put on the ground.
In the puppy back contract how many live and healthy puppies do you need to have to constitute not giving a puppy back? If there are only one or two do you give a puppy back? If so, you are looking at a lot of money that you will not be getting back and expect to go into the hole with the litter as far as money goes.
Does the person with the puppy back contract show the dog for you? Do they mentor you? Do they believe in spay neuter should you feel the dog shouldn't be bred?
There are 3 breeders I would buy with a puppy back contract because I know them very well and know their lines very well...and the kicker of it is, they probably wouldn't hold me to a puppy back or they'd give me half price for the puppy and let me decide if the dog should be bred.

Jan
jashavanese.net
JASHavanese is offline  
post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-26-2010, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
GrannyMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 132
Submit Photo: 1
Photo Submissions 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hartman studio View Post
Hmmmm.. where to start with a reply. First let me say that Havanese breeders are very particular where they place their puppies. Most of these breeders breed because they LOVE the Havanese breed-not for profit. They also get very attached to their puppies and want to make sure they are placed in the best household possible. If you are only using email to inquire about puppies it is very impersonal. Most breeders want to talk with you to get a "feel" for what you are like and what are your expectations. Add to that you are asking for a "show" puppy with full breeding rights. They will want to know more about your intentions and experience. They are trying very hard to keep the Havanese breed healthy and with good temperments and not let this breed go the way of so many others that have become popular and overbred. Your remark that you would now buy from a mill or BYB because of your interactions with reputable breeders would not go over well. Are you now saying you would try to show one of those? Or are you just looking to breed? Either way this would be a red flag for breeders. I suggest if you are serious about showing you may want to find a reputable breeder that lives near you so they could mentor you.
You misread what I said. I said I could see why SOME people would be pushed to nonreputable breeders. I did not say I would buy from a mill or BYB. The reason I used email instead of calls is that most of the websites said email any questions or inquiries. No, I am not looking just to breed. I am looking for a puppy to show, to train in obedience and to become a member of my family. It seems that many, many of the Havanese breeders are very quick to judge!!
GrannyMouse is offline  
post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-26-2010, 10:44 AM
Senior Member
 
pjewel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 8,941
Submit Photo: 3
Photo Submissions 41 Times in 25 Posts
I would think it would serve you well to get into a conversation with a breeder over the phone if they suggest that. The communication level is different and you can both see how you feel about each other. Is this someone you're comfortable with? Are you comfortable with the terms of the contract? The breeders, as mentioned before, are very cautious about the home their puppies go to, wanting the best future for them that they can provide. They take bringing them into the world very seriously.

With email being a flat medium, it's easy to misinterpret the written word, for any of us.

<b>Just Milo and me, and . . . </b>Bailey makes three . . . until Ruby said, "hey, what about me?"
Geri, Milo, Bailey and HRH Princess Ruby Tuesday

If you're thinking of getting a puppy, click here
http://www.photoshow.com/watch/YK8AH4rw
pjewel is offline  
post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-26-2010, 10:57 AM
Mom to Hobbes
 
cjsud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 272
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 0 Times in 0 Posts
I also have to add. I never realized how MANY emails and calls breeders get. When we start to look for a puppy we think we are the only ones and we should have a choice and it should be easy. Never thinking that reputable breeders sell a lot by word of mouth and many times have a long waiting list. It can be frustrating but please remember you are not the only one contacting each breeder and they have many many people to write back or speak to on the phone each day. Not everyone is honest with them and some are rude to them and it makes them defensive and annoyed that someone who wants a lifetime commitment to one of their dogs isn't gonna do the work in understanding the breed or spending the energy to keep calling them until they have time to talk. Breeders don't sit home all day waiting for us to call or write. They have families to care for and vets to go to. This really isn't a business that has hours.
I am not a breeder and I did have to contact 5 or 6 breeders some who called back on Sundays or had me call them late at night. I looked for months until someone said my Hobbes was available he was 7 months old. Be patient keep trying do your homework and the right pup will come along.
Geez see what happens when I don't post for weeks.



Cindy and Hobbes
From the Pines in NJ

cjsud is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome