No AKC Papers on Skiver yet - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 67 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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No AKC Papers on Skiver yet

Hi all:
Remember all the health problems I had with Skiver and all the trouble I had with his breeder? Well, Sky has been fixed for 5 months and we still don't have his papers yet. We sent the proof of neutering (as per contract) to the breeder via registered mail, but it was finally sent back unaccepted. When I reached him, he said that the mailman won't deliver registered mail because of the dogs (didn't know Havanese were attack dogs). He said send it regular mail. I did, weeks went by, nothing happened. I then emailed again (cuz you can't get this guy on the phone) and he does not reply. I'm afraid I spent a lot of money on a purebreed (I hope!) without any papers. What is my recourse? He is in Florida, I am in Michigan. I am going to get all the papers together and report him to the AKC, but I'm not sure that's enough. By the way, little Sky is still only barely 5 pounds at 11 months. So much for 'show quality'. Although I love the little guy, he was sold to us as champion stock, and (with a little more money) we were encouraged to show him. He doesn't even make weight, poor guy.

So, breeders, what do I do? I did my part of the bargain, even tho I was offered money to breed him with someone else's dog. I've certainly learned my lesson, and found a much better breeder with my second dog. (and have his papers!!)
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post #2 of 67 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 03:43 PM
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Ugh! I have heard similar stories more times than I can count. It has got to be frustrating.

Can I ask what the importance of the papers is for you? Does it matter if you get his papers? Do you want to do any AKC events with him? Or do you just want it to prove he is a purebred? I'm asking to try to help you get resolution on this.
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post #3 of 67 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
 
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Well, I'm not going to do any AKC events, no. I guess it's just a matter of pride, and of the right thing. I was brought up that a person's handshake was a binding thing, and I guess that's naive of me, but I feel cheated. He's also so different from Shaw, that I wonder if he is full Havanese. I'm pretty sure he's part silky havanese, his hair is just so soft, and his face is so small, but he's so tiny. People just can't believe that he and Shaw are the same breed! Shaw's coat is coming in so nice, and Sky still has trouble, probably due to the problems he had as a young pup in that ....... 'breeders'..... (I'm being contained).

So, I guess the papers would just mean, hey, I have a purebred and not anything else. I'd like to shout to the world about this guy, he advertises on the Internet (I know, I know, but I've learned since then!!) and warn people about him, he's already threatened me with a lawsuit, believe it or not, just for posting things like this, without even mentioning his name.
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post #4 of 67 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 04:07 PM
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OK, that makes sense.

You can try to send him a letter via another delivery service. Doesn't UPS have a signature required delivery method?

If all else fails, you can always file a lawsuit in Small Claims Court, but I don't know if that would be worth your time and money. I'm not sure that AKC will do much of anything, but it is easy enough to email them. In my experience, they have always replied to my emails in less than 24 hours.

As a last resort, you can file a complaint with the HCA and his local Havanese club if he is a member. I don't know that either one of these will do any good, but it may raise awareness to the problem. I'd recommend you use the other avenues before you go here though.

Good luck.

Edited to add that I just saw this line:
Quote:
he's already threatened me with a lawsuit, believe it or not, just for posting things like this, without even mentioning his name.
Hmm - this rings a bell! Just stick to facts and if he's reading, he'll see that you do have some options. He can't really win if he isn't following through on his own contracts.

Last edited by Havtahava; 10-16-2007 at 04:12 PM.
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post #5 of 67 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 06:17 PM
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I agree if you paid for a registered dog you should get the papers. You don't need a reason to want them you paid for them.

We are always talking about good breeders but how do we know? I think we should have a list that gives just the facts, Ebay and other sites do it:

name
dogs name
Breeder
Date of Purchase
Reason for concern: (never gave the AKC Papers, Did not keep contract on Health guarantee)
Reason for recommendation; (did everything they promised)

Why can't we do it?

Sandi, taking a new road with Smarty and Galen
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post #6 of 67 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 06:19 PM
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Joanne, that must be very frustrating! I'm not sure what else you can do other than report the breeder to the AKC or sue him (which would be costly and time consuming, like Kimberly mentioned). I hope you are able to get this resolved and that Sky will get his papers soon!


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post #7 of 67 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMARTY View Post
I agree if you paid for a registered dog you should get the papers. You don't need a reason to want them you paid for them.

We are always talking about good breeders but how do we know? I think we should have a list that gives just the facts, Ebay and other sites do it:

name
dogs name
Breeder
Date of Purchase
Reason for concern: (never gave the AKC Papers, Did not keep contract on Health guarantee)
Reason for recommendation; (did everything they promised)

Why can't we do it?
I do think that would be a good idea, but I can understand why some people would be uncomfortable doing it. Let's say you recommend a breeder and then someone has a very bad experience with him/her. Or you recommend a breeder that you thought was great and others will come and say that he/she is actually a horrible breeder and how you must not have asked the right questions, etc. It's basically a fear of being judged by others on this forum (or wherever else) for buying a puppy from who you did.

I'm not saying that's necessarily true of everyone, but I do think from talking to some people that there is some fear on this forum (as well as in the Havanese world at large) to name a breeder. Not only because something can go wrong and make the breeder look bad, but there's also the fear that it can make the person who bought the puppy look bad (again, the whole passing judgment thing). I might be totally off base on this, but I do think some people feel that way.

Maybe if we had an anonymous way of doing this, people would be more willing to do it?

Please don't hate me for my post, it's just my opinion.


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post #8 of 67 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 06:30 PM
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Well,

That can be a slippery slope! Especially on a public forum like this one...which happens to be privately owned. If I say "_______ is a criminal and crook", then "_______" could legally come after me and sue for slander and defamation and/or sue the forum or owner of the forum.

However, private conversations are fine. If I PM or email someone, that's just an opinion.

I do wish some of the bad apples out there were more obvious! It would save some heartache for future owners that become a bit too eager and buy the first dog they see...and want to believe that the breeder is legitimate and honorable. So many crooks out there

Kara
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post #9 of 67 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 06:31 PM
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Jolynn,
I agree with you. You paid for and entered into an agreement for a registered Havanese. Part of that agreement was to include registration papers. Whether you frame them or throw them in a drawer and forget about them doesn't really matter. It's the fact that you agreed to a certain contract with your breeder and he isn't holding up his end of the deal. I was raised to believe that if I enter into an agreement with someone or make a promise to anyone about anything, I do it in good faith and I keep up my end of it. It's just the right thing to do.

Susan

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post #10 of 67 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 06:34 PM
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Jolynn, I just sent you a pm.

Peg
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