This is a new area on a TRIAL basis. Its either going to be great or get out of hand, but nothing ventured nothing gained.
Here you can list your breeder, and your experience with them. Good or bad. Stick with the facts, no slander or emotional rambling.
Breeders ...feel free to start a thread and say what you do as a breeder. What health testing do you do? What kind of set up do you keep your dogs in? Are they in kennels or do they live in the house? What do you strive for when breeding, such as temperment...conformation, color, whatever it is. Do you show?
Be prepared to BACK UP what you say. We want photos, we want documentation of health testing. List your bloodlines and dogs.
Im hoping people can ask LOTS of questions. It wont be easy to lie to people here, because lots of people, some in the business and some not, will be watching! SO if you are unethical breeder, think twice before participating, bad practices will be discovered.
One very IMPORTANT RULE: DO NOT ADVERTISE PUPPIES. Don't result to a classified ad about a puppy. New litter photos are fine, just do not say they are for sale or available.
This should be a great learning experience. It will also give people who think they want to breed a look into what it takes, its NOT easy, its NOT profitable and it should be Hard Work! Give the facts but try to keep it friendly.
Beverly
I did not think you were all over the place on this topic . I think you expressed yourself very well .
I wish I had stated it as well .
It is a complex issue .
Keeping up with all the puppies that have been produced is not a personality issue. How else will the breeder know for certain whether any health problems come up?
I know several breeders on the recommended list that are very open. I only say several because I don't know them all. There are a few that I know who aren't. Either is not a reason to be on that list. Some on the list are on there simply because they are on the committee and are there to help answer any questions and offer advice. Pam spends at least an hour each day doing just that. I'm pretty sure Kay spends several times that much.
Most I know who don't ship puppies don't because they are worried about the puppies suffering any type of trauma at such a young age. We have never shipped puppies and never will. We encourage all our puppy buyers, and anyone else for that matter, to visit our pack. But everyone can't do that so we do meet people at airports since we don't expect them to rent a car and drive here from the airport, although quite a few do.
I had a good experience and I love how thorough my breeder was in supplying all the testing info (which I verified) of Oreo's lineage. She even started us on puppy insurance just to get us started. She is quite busy, I can appreciate that, I had the privilege of seeing a couple more of her show dogs and they are quite gorgeous. One that particularly reminded me of my old dog that I had in highschool.
Melissa, I am grateful for this forum it gave me a lot of valuable information that reassured me during the research/interiew process. I have never believed in getting any pet from a pet store and because of sites like this one it constantly reassures that I am right in my resolve. I sincerely hope that those looking for a puppy find sites like this to help them and reassure them along the way.
Something that everyone needs to remember also, is that some breeder's might be busy in their lives at the time you call or email and can't get back to you right away. While I respond to my buyers right away, other's might not. All of my puppy buyers correspond with me regularly and I LOVE IT! I love seeing pictures. In fact I tell all of my puppy buyers, that 1. They actually are becoming a "member" of our family. 2. They are REQUIRED to send pictures!!!!! <grin> They all do and we all enjoy each other. I am not producing puppies just because, but rather to try and IMPROVE the breed.
I just spent over $500.00 having pre-breeding testing done on two of my bitches. I had another reputable breeder tell me I was NUTS for doing it. I however strongly disagree with her. I do complete blood panels and brucellosis and complete health check before breeding to be sure my bitches are still healthy. That is for my peace of mind, as I don't want to breed them if they are not healthy, plus, I don't want to pass on something to the pups.
Tom, Great point. I think it is all about what you expect from them. Some breeders are so busy with shows and lives of their own that they don't get back to you right away. But the problem is if they don't get back at all...........
Also, if you have a health issue, you would think they should get back asap and if not then there is an issue. I have to go to the vet within 72 hours of getting my dog. It is part of my contract. Then I think I have to call the breeder to let her know how it went or even give her paperwork from the vet.
As far as shipping, I always heard stay away from breeders who ship the dog alone by air. I know, I know, I know, please don't blast me with emails. I know some of you had a hard time finding good breeders close to you. But hopefully, we will build this forum up, so that people can get ideas of good breeders that are close to where they live.
I am just not sure how to go about doing it........... I do know that when I first joined this forum, I searched by State and did not find anyone else in PA. That was my first idea. I was going to PM people in PA for help. So either there are no other people here from PA or people don't list there location.
Maybe we just need to encourage potential puppy owners to introduce themselves and where they live. Then all of us who live in their area can either PM them breeders in our area or post it (what ever the person is more comfortable with). You can also warn them to stay away.
I would be happy to start an area for PA, NJ, DE. I would give them the link to the local club. I couldn't recommend a lot of breeders personally but hopefully I will join the club and get to know them.
Just to let everyone know that yesterday I emailed Kodi's breeder about our getting a 2nd puppy and to tell her how much fun they are having together.
Well, when I opened my email tonite, there was a reply from the breeder. Just a short note congratulating us, happy to know that Kodi is doing so well and even a little update on her family. We are even trying to put together a little reunion.
It was in my contract that they expected contact from us every three months for the first year to let them know how the puppy was doing. And if there were problems, we were to notify them right away.
Even though she doesn't show puppies, and she isn't breeding Kodi's mom anymore, she still likes to know how the puppies are doing. She will be breeding one of Kodi's sisters and I am sure she wants to know that it is a good line. I think this is all we would expect from a breeder - that if we email them, just acknowledge the fact that we thought enough of their breeding and the resulting puppies.
Melissa, I missed this topic when it was originally being discussed. I didn't realize you didn't want litters posted even though we talked about it off the board prior to me posting the photos. I posted them because it was an exciting day and it was conversation - - - and NONE of them were available for sale anyway.
I just feel awkward since I just saw this. Has this rule changed or has it been removed? I know that several of us have done it and I want to make sure it is OK with you before I post any more photos. I am trying to keep them all in one topic and not multiple threads.
No, this has changed. Since the forum has started, many things have changed. I was worried people would take advantage. But now, Its all ok.
We have to see litters because we are like a big family.
And I think its evolved to a good place. I will change that.
I have been insanely swamped and gone, Im sorry I have been MIA.
Update - Just recently I have been getting replies to my emails to Shelby's breeder. She just sent me pics of Shelby's litter when they were a few weeks old. Maybe her computer was down so she couldn't reply sooner, but we have been keeping in touch recently. Kodi's breeder is always in touch - we email each other every few months, just to keep in touch.
I see many breeders who offer a 1 year guarantee against genetic problems. This confounds me because a genetic fault is a genetic fault no matter when it turns up. The problem is in the genes and therefore it seems the breeder should have some liablility after the one year is up. Am I looking at this in the wrong manner or can someone explain to me why this 1 year deal is so common?
Kim, I think the individual breeders who have that in their contracts would have to answer it. Not everyone has that clause. I don't.
As for liability, I think the law varies by state. If I recall correctly, in the state of California, in the eye of the law (or maybe it is an IRS issue - I'm not sure), the "value" of the dog drops considerably after the first year so that may be the reason.
Maybe *some* breeders think that things that show up after a year could be from an "environmental" cause, or accident/injury...like a puppy falling down the stairs and getting hip dysplasia, for example...and maybe they are just protecting themselves from things that happen due to factors outside of their control. Some health problems are caused by diet, etc.
I do think there are breeders that will stand behind their dogs longer than that, even if the contract specifies a year.
There are some real gems out there, like Kimberly!
I guess the reality is that if you have owned the dog for a year you are certainly not going to want to return it but it seems that many genetic problems could arise after the "warranty" period. But even at 6 months it would be hard to return a dog. I guess as I look for breeders should I be looking at breeders that offer a longer warranty or is it a non issue. Anyone want to weigh in on this?
I personally felt OK with the year guarantee (which my breeder gave) and also the same clause to return the dog, regardless of age, for any event that we couldn't take care of it, financially or situational, etc.
I think it really depends on what you are comfortable with. I know there is a risk with any dog, even good breeders sometimes have dogs with problems. But nowhere near the magnitude of problems a dog could have that comes from a puppy mill, or breeder that doesn't do all the appropriate testing on the dogs.
Ricky's breeder has a 3 year 'guarantee', but of course there is no way we'd EVER return Ricky no matter how soon a 'defect' might occur.
What I think is important, is finding a breeder that will be by your side should some health issue come up. Someone who won't poopoo your concerns, but will do their utmost to reassure you and offer payment and/or physical help if location isn't a problem. I think the only way to find out if that breeder really will do those things is to have them written in the contract and to talk to other puppy owners they've dealt with and hear what they have to say. That isn't always possible though due to privacy concerns.
Maybe that's where my skepticism lies. When I ask a breeder about the testing and they say they don't test but have never had a problem with their dogs how do I know that maybe problems have arisen after the 1 year period but by then the breeder is off the hook. It just seems odd that some breeders who don't do the testing ask the same $$$ as those breeders who are being more responsible. I asked one breeder for soap shots and he said he had had them done but the "evaluator" never gave him the photos. Is that fishy?? Not knowing enough about how soap shots are done and who evaluates the dogs I have to decide if they are just a disorganized breeder or they are being deceptive. Yikes...
Well, there are a couple of red flags there, kimsmith. Not having the pictures is like "the check is in the mail" kind of thing. I wouldnt' trust that. NO health tests at all?? Definitely not a good thing. There is no way any breeder can tell what genetic makeup/tendencies their pups have just looking at them! :suspicious: And no, they should not be charging so much, but then what's the point of paying less if there are no health tests done on the parents at least?
Walk away. If they don't health test, or if they say they test, but don't submit the results for verification, I may get flamed for saying this, but I think you can assume they are hiding something. I wouldn't believe them for a minute.
As for the "no photos" part, there is some controversy there, but his reply would send me packing. (I might go packing without soaped photos, but the reply made it a sure thing!)
Kim, there are a lot of good breeders out there, but there are a lot of questionable breeders too. I have a page on my web site called "Buyer Beware". It's short, but it has my opinions on some red flags to avoid.
One other thing (I don't think I have on my site) that is also controversial is I would avoid someone who didn't show their dogs. If they aren't willing to have them judged against the standard before they breed them, then see ya! There are many dogs that don't fit the standard or have had something change so they aren't show eligible, but the breeder should be trying to make dogs that conform to the standard.
Lastly, meet the parents and watch out for dogs that have poor temperaments (whether that be aggressive, which is rare in Havanese, or timid or skittish). A dog with a poor temperament shouldn't be bred. Temperament is the most heritable trait. You want a real Havanese with a real Havanese temperament.
That is the best site. I printed that out a few weeks ago when I found it in this forum and realized that there is a lot more to finding the right puppy than seeing a cute one and falling in love with it. This forum is a godsend. Thanks
Kim, it looks like you're doing all the right research!
I'd recommend to you, the same as I recommend to people who contact me personally asking for referrals:
Make sure you check out the breeder first.
Then, check out the dogs (verify health testing).
AFTER those two points are done, then you can look at puppies. Don't look at puppies before the other two points because common sense goes out the window. Even the breeders know that and some will try to get you to come "visit" the puppies or "just see them" before the other things are done, because we all know that puppy faces are irresistable.
Kimberly, that's a great point.
once you fall in love with those little faces, you're sunk!
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Havanese Forum
659.8K posts
22.7K members
Since 2006
A forum community dedicated to Havanese owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about breeding, health, behavior, housing, adopting, care, classifieds, and more!