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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
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Supplements Anyone use them?

I know we've discussed Salmon Oil as a great supplement - but what about any of the others? I've used Show Stopper for about a month when I had MeMe on Satin Balls - I just wanted the extra nutrition/coat conditioning. Reports from other users say it may contribute to stones. Not proven. Also I've been leery about anything using flax - anecdotal reports indicate there may be issues with pregnancy and whelping (this is NOT proven - use your own judgment), so I'm not a fan of Missing Link.

Anyway, just learned about Venture. It helped another dog who dropped coat in reaction to a rabies vaccine. The web site claims it's even safe and good for humans. Here are the ingredients:
ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS
  • Sunflower seed
  • Pumpkin seed
  • Flax seed
  • Whey powder
  • Brewer's yeast
  • Kelp
  • Wild Alaskan salmon oil
Shelled seeds are ground at low speed to prevent heat destruction of nutrients. Venture is high in Omega 3, 6 and 9 essential fatty acids, building blocks for healthy skin and coat, and superior brain function. Venture contains natural source Zinc, natural source Calcium, and natural source Vitamin E.

Here's the LINK for the site: http://www.venturesupp.com/about.htm

So what supplements are you using and like? I'm really looking to do whatever I can to regrow MeMe's coat - the poor girl is half naked and what's left is broken from rubbing on a chair.


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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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Okay, this is weird - they just did the first scientific study and it looks like Phytoestrogens such as soy and flax that are commonly found in pet foods may have an effect on canine reproduction. Here's the info

Compounds From Soy Affect Brain And Reproductive Development

ScienceDaily (Aug. 1, 2008) — Two hormone-like compounds linked to the consumption of soy-based foods can cause irreversible changes in the structure of the brain, resulting in early-onset puberty and symptoms of advanced menopause in research animals, according to a new study by researchers at North Carolina State University.

The study is a breakthrough in determining how these compounds can cause reproductive health problems, as well as in providing a key building block for how to treat these problems.

The study is the first to show that the actual physical organization of a region of the brain that is important for female reproduction can be significantly altered by exposure to phytoestrogens – or plant-produced chemicals that mimic hormones – during development. Specifically, the study finds that the compounds alter the sex-specific organization of the hypothalamus – a brain region that is essential to the regulation of puberty and ovulation. The study also shows that the phytoestrogens could cause long-term effects on the female reproductive system.

While the study examined the impact of these compounds on laboratory rats, neurotoxicologist Dr. Heather Patisaul – who co-authored the study – says the affecte
d "circuitry" of the brain is similar in both rats and humans. Patisaul is an assistant professor in NC State's Department of Zoology. Her co-author is Heather Bateman, a doctoral student in the department.

Patisaul says this finding is extremely important because, while the changes in brain structure cannot be reversed, "if you understand what is broken, you may be able to treat it." Patisaul says she is in the process of evaluating the effects of these compounds on the ovaries themselves.

Patisaul says that this study is also "a step towards ascertaining the effects of phytoestrogens on developing fetuses and newborns." Patisaul adds that these phytoestrogenic compounds cross the placental barrier in humans and that, while many people are concerned about the effects of man-made compounds on human health, it is important to note that some naturally occurring substances can have similar effects.

In the study, which will be published in an upcoming issue of Neurotoxicology, the researchers exposed newborn rats to physiologically relevant doses of the phytoestrogens genistein and equol, and then looked at reproductive health markers in the rats throughout their adulthood. The neonatal stage of development in rats is comparable to the latter stages of pregnancy for humans, Patisaul says. Genistein is a phytoestrogen that is found in various plants, including soybeans and soy-based foods. Equol is a hormone-like compound that is formed when bacteria found in the digestive system metabolize another phytoestrogen. However, only approximatel
y a third of humans have the necessary bacteria to produce equol.

The study shows that both genistein and equol result in the early disruption of the rats' estrus cycle – which would be corollary to early onset of menopause in a human. The study also showed that genistein caused the early onset of puberty. The disruption of the estrus cycle could stem from problems with the brain or the ovaries, so the researchers decided to determine if the compounds had any effect on brain development or function.

Patisaul explains that the brains of both female rats and female humans have a region that regulates ovulation. "That part of the brain," Patisaul says, "is organized by hormones during development – which is the neonatal stage for rats and during gestation for humans." Patisaul says the new study shows that the female brain is "critically sensitive" to genistein and equol during this crucial stage of development – and that this may indicate that the brain is also especially sensitive during this period to all phytoestrogens and possibly other man-made chemicals, such as bisphenol-A.

Journal reference:

Bateman et al. Disrupted female reproductive physiology following neonatal exposure to phytoestrogens or estrogen specific ligands is associated with decreased gnrh activation and kisspeptin fiber density in the hypothalamus. NeuroToxicology, 2008; DOI: 10.1016/j.neuro.2008.06.008

Adapted from materials provided by North Carolina State University.


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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 09:06 AM
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I will either use a mix of Organic Sea Kelp and Alfalfa Leaves and Fish Oil or Feedsentials with the raw food. Feedsentials contains the following
Carob powder, ground sunflower seed, dried parsley leaf, kelp flakes, alfalfa greens, ground almond, hulled oil rich hemp seeds, hemp seed flour, dried red and green pepper, dry celery leaf, dried blueberry, dried cranberry, dry dandelion leaf, ground pumpkin seed, powdered carrot, stinging nettle, barley grass powder, dried mint leaf, powdered rosehip, paprika, burdock root powder, garlic powder, ground walnut, ground flax seed, sesame seed, Prozyme, glucosamine, MSM, dried dill weed, coriander, anise, fennel, goat milk whey powder, powdered marshmallow root, blue Hawaii spirulina, rosemary, ascorbic acid, Primal Defense probiotic, oregano, ginger, cumin, marjoram, thyme, savory, basil, sage, cayenne, powdered yucca, turmeric, fenugreek, bilberry, vegetal silica.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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Okay sorry guys, but I just learned about this one for hair growth - I know their other supplements are pretty good, but what do you think of this?


DogZymes Grow Hair is formulated to be fed in conjunction with DogZymes Ultimate. “Ultimate” formula contains a symbiotic balance of vitamins, minerals, trace minerals, and amino acids for Canine. DogZymes Grow Hair is used when extra length of coat is desired, if we have urgency to fill in those unsightly bald spots, or to speed up the hair growth process. DogZymes Grow Hair consists of Methionine, Biotin, and Organic poultry liver powder. Feeding directions: feed 1/8 teaspoon per 15 pounds of body weight until desired growth is achieved.


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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 10:12 AM
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While I dont think is used for growing hair, it helped put weight on my maltese and made her look a lot nicer. I have used it for about 2 years and nothing bad like kidney stones, etc.

http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/produ...id=36&code=591

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 10:33 AM
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I've used ShowStopper in the past and while others have claimed some negative results (coat burning), I had good results. However, I haven't been using it for quite a while now, maybe even a year, and I don't see much difference in the coat of my dogs, so maybe the timing was coincidence.

The Venture looks interesting. I need to sit down and read that article about flax & reproduction more thoroughly. I've heard that tie a few times, but I had not found any articles that are scientifically based until you posted this one.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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Let me know what you think Kimberly. I first saw the "reported" FYIs a while ago in the Coton breed, and that's what first gave me the heads up on the flax based products. Didn't know that about soy products however. I think it's a fairly legitimate journal, but don't know it personally.


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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 10:38 AM
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By the way, MeMe's coat doesn't look bad at all. I know you are seeing the difference right now, but it isn't obvious to someone who isn't around her as much. You're doing a great job with her.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Aw shucks thanks Kimberly. But I kid you not - she's lost at least half of it. I'd never seen her skin before when I bathed or combed her and now she looks like an advertisement for Rograine. Poor little thing. Especially when I compare her to some of Sparky's other babies.


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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 10:52 AM
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Well, the standard does say that you shouldn't have such a profuse coat as to obscure the natural lines of the dog. When her coat is dry, she doesn't look like she's lacking coat, so with that line from the standard and what I saw, I think she has the perfect amount of coat!
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