HSUS vs. Local Rescues, etc. - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-30-2010, 05:26 PM Thread Starter
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HSUS vs. Local Rescues, etc.

Hi everyone, Andra and I have PM'd back and forth, and she asked me to move our conversation here so that other people can weigh in as well!:

[Quote]:
Originally Posted by andra
Hi there.

I dont mind you guessing and I am sorry if I have created a mystery on the board LOL. I did not want to post my inquiry on the main forum because it seems like it may be a bit off topic even though to me it is extremely relevant and also interwoven into where I am at today, which is the proud mamma of Dionna the havanese, who I got at 8 weeks old and she turned one last month.

My inquiry was about the humane society, which is also linked to PETA (which I dont know anything about either but is not part of my inquiry).

I have some negative feelings about the humane society because of what happened to me when I adopted my first dog there. It is a long story, which I posted in my introduction here and also on the other havanese board (I joined both at the same time and was not aware of the issues as I am new to both). To say it was a botched adoption from start to finish would be the understatement of the century and my dog ended up needing euthanasia after 8 days with me. It is a very very long and painful story but I have all of the documentation in the memory box I created.

My feelings are valid but I also dont want to create drama or upset on the board. Having said that, I have noticed a few side comments about the humane society that are consistent with my viewpoint and I wanted to ask more experienced individuals about this.

I have been traumatized by what happened. I also have complicated grief about the whole thing. I never would have guessed that my first attempt at dog ownership would have ended so tragically.

The silver lining is that I now have my current dog, who is a havanese and she is truly my angel. We named her Dionna in honor of Dionna the first who did not get enough time with us.

Thank you for listening and for taking the time to ask.

andra [end quote]

I replied:

That's pretty funny, because I JUST posted about the dangers of HSUS, and their hidden agendas.

I think what's important to remember is that HSUS is not directly involved with any animal shelters. They are a lobbying organization who make it LOOK (in their ads) like they directly help animals... they don't.

I remember reading about your experience, and I am so sorry that happened to you.

Obviously, all shelters are not created equal, and it sounds like you experienced a bad one. There are some very good shelters out there that do wonderful work. And there are rescue groups, like Havanese Rescue, that work a little differently. When a dog is taken into Havanese Rescue, they are placed in a foster home, not in a shelter, so they get individualized care in a home setting until they are ready to go to their forever home.

I think it's fine to post about this on the forum, and it's also fine with me if you want to just cut and paste my response to you here. I think it's important for people to know that, just like when picking a breeder, you need to approach adoption with caution and make sure that the shelter or rescue group you are adopting from is a good one. Both because you want to know what kind of dog you are getting AND because you want to support GOOD organizations with your donations, not bad ones.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-30-2010, 05:36 PM
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I am a bit confused about the use of 'humane society' and the main organization as the shelter that I adopted my first dog from was labeled "(city location-insert here) Humane Society". And their website seems to imply that it is linked to the humane society but now I am thinking that the two are not linked in any way and that anybody can put 'humane society' on their shelter as a generic label. I dont know if this is done intentionally to confuse people who are just average joes or what??

Well, I went in to the adoption with the purest of intentions and the excitement and enthusiasm of fulfilling my dream of owning my first dog. I never would have known that it would have turned out the way that it did.

What's done is done and even though I still have a lot of deep seeded grief, I have moved on and am now the mommy of Dionna the havanese who is my joy.

I am sorry and embarassed if I caused any confusion or drama on the forum. If the moderators think my original post should be deleted, I am ok with it!

andra
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-30-2010, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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Andra,

I think part of your confusion is in thinking that just because an organization has "Humane Society" in it's name, they are all the same organization... they aren't, except for HSUS (which, as I mentioned, isn't REALLY a humane society) run on a national level. They are locally run, even if there is some loose affiliation. So the fact that you had trouble with one "humane society" doesn't mean they are all bad. We are lucky to have a very good one near us.


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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-30-2010, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andra View Post
I am a bit confused about the use of 'humane society' and the main organization as the shelter that I adopted my first dog from was labeled "(city location-insert here) Humane Society". And their website seems to imply that it is linked to the humane society but now I am thinking that the two are not linked in any way and that anybody can put 'humane society' on their shelter as a generic label. I dont know if this is done intentionally to confuse people who are just average joes or what??

Well, I went in to the adoption with the purest of intentions and the excitement and enthusiasm of fulfilling my dream of owning my first dog. I never would have known that it would have turned out the way that it did.

What's done is done and even though I still have a lot of deep seeded grief, I have moved on and am now the mommy of Dionna the havanese who is my joy.

I am sorry and embarassed if I caused any confusion or drama on the forum. If the moderators think my original post should be deleted, I am ok with it!

andra
Andra, there is NO reason to be sorry or embarrassed about being confused about something. And there is no reason that other people shouldn't hear that you had a problem.

I can't believe that any shelter would use the name "humane society" to try to confuse people... even poorly run shelters WANT to help animals... they just may not be doing a very good job.


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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-30-2010, 09:48 PM
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There is a Humane Society Shelter in the town next to mine and I am pretty sure that it is locally (county) funded and doesn't get any money from HSUS. They also run on donations and volunteers. I believe there is only one paid staff member (the director). I know they do the best they can but it isn't great.

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-30-2010, 10:36 PM
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Andra, Thank you for talking about your experience. I think many people are confused about The Humane Society. There of course is the National (I think they have a shelter or two) They are mainly a lobbying group. It is their policy to not inforce the trade mark use of their name and consider benefical for others to use their name. This confuses many people. I lobby, sometimes I am not popular. I do not dislike Peta or the Humane Society. I do consider them radicals on many matters. I am conservative (unless you ask the hunters in Bladen Co, NC.). They make my job easier. There is a county in SC where I can't even drive through. I like some of Peta's programs such as Dog houses for the south, they build wooden dog houses for dogs that are left on chains or have plastic houses here in the south. They also provide euthanasia for dogs in rual shelters here in the south (the alterantive is they poison in their food, it is a horrible death). There is many good and bad things the main thing is the public notices!!! I want puppy mill laws. Do I want to stop breeding. No I want breeders to have as many dogs as they can take care of. This whole 42 parallel mentality has to stop. Everyone needs to be part of the solution and first and formost breeders should be helping to draft laws. My little rant and I am so sorry Andra you need to tell people so it does not happen to them.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-31-2010, 05:47 AM
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This has been a very painful educational process. I am very new to the dog world; I am an expert in all things hedgehog but very unclear about things in the dog world. That is one of the reasons we hired an excellent in home trainer immediately when we brought Dionna II (my havanese) home.

I certainly do not want to stir up controversy and I am astute enough not to immediately generalize what happened to me at my shelter to all shelters BUT when I started to see some side comments about HSUS that seemed to be consistent with my experience, I wanted to ask somebody, if only to confirm that I was not the only person who had a very bad experience. I did not realize that the term 'humane society' could be used and not necessarily be linked to the main organization.

I am still very grief stricken and shell shocked by what happened and it brings all of the emotions rushing back up. That is why I had to ask somebody, if only to provide another puzzle piece to what happened to me. In my angst, I am not sure if I am even communicating clearly as I type as I end up with a huge lump in my throat.

Anyway, I feel very embarassed by all of this now....I certainly do not want to create any tension, drama or upset. I am just trying to be the best havanese mommy as I can be. To do so, I want to learn but I also dont want to recreate any missteps that Dionna the first went through nor do I want to accidently donate to any place that is creating similar problems.

andra
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-31-2010, 07:23 AM Thread Starter
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The HUSU cannot dictate whether people can use the term "Humane Society" in their name or not. The term pre-dates HUSU by almost 200 years. HUSU was founded in 1954. The FIRST Humane Society I could find reference to was in the UK in 1774!


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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-31-2010, 08:09 AM
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Okay, which one is on tv all the time with the pleas for money and the pitiful photos of dogs and cats who can't find homes, asking for 18.00 per month?

Sir Winston sez "Non Basta Una Vita.”

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-31-2010, 10:19 AM
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Andra, I have been replying to your pm, but I will just put it in here.

I am going to put a few things in her that will touch on the term everyone wants to use so much "puppymills) and about Peta and HSUS. And Warning this is very long I have to break it down into two post.

lets start with the word "puppymill"
In all reality what we really need to do is remove the word "puppy mill" from our vocabulary as that word was actually started by the HSUS and PETA, and has such a broad range in what people believe it means. We need to actually start educating people and the real problem and and help them to understand.

Yes these places that everyone has in mind as "puppy Mills" meaning the horrible conditions the excessive breeding etc is really only a small part of it. Our actual problem is the big guys. Like "Pet Land" etc. because they are be backed by the USDA and are doing everything they should be by their standards, they are trying to force these issues on us. They have thousands of dogs and are producing 600 plus puppies a year, they are making millions, they hire in vets, make sure that the animals are provided for, but the part about that that bothers me is, they put these animals in small en-closers, they are forced to have babies all their life, and these kinds of places are seen as ok, because the conditions appear clean, yet these animals have no loving human contact or do their babies, and these same groups are the ones that are also trying to take our rights away.
For example: If I was to have a Havanese female ready to whelp her litter, she can be in the house with me, but the moment she goes into labor she is no longer allowed in the house rather she would have to be in a separate building in an en-closer of a certain size and that is where she would have to stay, Why? Because she is now consider no longer your pet, but rather just breeding stock.
I'm sorry but this is my family pet and I am not in it to make money, and now I am being told that if she was to have her puppies in the home where I live I can now be fined and or imprisoned.

You can’t really ban a word. In fact, an attempt to ban something often backfires, particularly in the United States, where we don’t like people censoring our speech. So I’m not going to tell you not to say “puppy mill”. I’m going to give you some very good reasons for not using that phrase.

I speak to a lot of dog clubs and frequently hear dog breeders supporting so-called “anti-puppy-mill” laws. When I ask these people to define “puppy mill,” invariably the definitions given include:
• People who “overbreed” their dogs;
• People who don’t take care of their dogs;
• People who have too many dogs;
• People who breed dogs “just for money”; and
• People who don’t take health issues into account when breeding their dogs.

Let’s look at these definitions in turn. What is “overbreeding”? In the wild, most canids can only reproduce once a year. Most domestic dogs can have two litters a year. When I first became a dog breeder, it was almost a religious belief that no female dog should be bred more than once a year. We were told that it was important to “rest” the uterus between litters. Today, however, thanks to advances in veterinary medicine, we know that an uterus is actually damaged by the elevated progesterone levels that occur in each heat cycle, whether the dog is pregnant or not. Veterinary reproduction specialists recommend that dogs be bred on their second or third heat cycle, that we do more back-to-back breedings, and that we spay the dogs at around age six.

The “overbreeding” argument also treats reproduction as something that female dogs wouldn’t do if they had a choice. Dogs aren’t people - female dogs actually want to be bred when they’re in heat and, with few exceptions, enjoy raising their puppies. It’s not an unwelcome event for dogs.

People who don’t take care of their dogs are already guilty of a crime in all 50 states. There is nowhere in the United States where it is legal to neglect or abuse dogs. Sadly, a small minority of all dog breeders - commercial, home and hobby - commit neglect and abuse. Some of these do so out of ignorance, some out of laziness, and some out of meanness. All are already breaking the law. It just needs to be enforced.

One of our biggest problems now is that animal radicals insist that every dog be raised like a hothouse flower. One bill proposed this year would have required every kennel to be air conditioned. Many owners of working dogs prefer that their dogs be acclimated to hot weather so that they can work when the temperature goes up. Likewise, sled dogs in the north often sleep outdoors in the snow. Dogs can live and thrive in a wide range of environments. The Arctic Circle, the jungles of Africa, and the deserts of Arabia have all produced breeds of dogs that can live happily in conditions that might not suit all dogs. It is important that we not let activists redefine the needs of dogs to the extent that we are forced to provide a brass bed and a down pillow for every animal in the kennel!

What is “too many” dogs? Most of our breeds were developed by wealthy people who kept large numbers of dogs. Hound breeders traditionally kept good-sized packs, and early show breeders did as well. Now that our sport includes more mainstream people - people with jobs or people who need jobs - it’s hard for many of us to keep large numbers of dogs. There is no inherent link between numbers of dogs and neglect. People who have the resources to keep big kennels provide a service for all of us, particularly if they maintain a good number of useful stud dogs.

Breeding dogs is expensive, and getting more so daily. It’s just plain silly to pretend that none of us needs the money generated by puppy sales and stud services. Without that income, the vast majority of middle class breeders could not afford this sport. When our sport was solely in the hands of rich people, it was the norm to sneer at people in “trade”, and part of that attitude was handed down to us with the culture of our sport. Today, however, the majority of us in the sport are “in trade”, in the sense that we have to work to support ourselves. Our dogs must, at least in part, support themselves or most of us would have to get out of the game.

We have among us a small but vociferous group of people who think that breeders only care about producing great hunting or show dogs, and nothing about health. In fact, I’ve never met a breeder who wasn’t concerned about the health of his dogs and the health of his breed. Most health problems in dogs don’t have simple solutions, so it is only natural that breeders are often going to disagree about how to address health problems. When there’s no right answer to a question, then breeders who follow a different path than you might choose are not necessarily wrong or unconcerned. I know that many believe that commercial breeders don’t care about health, but the fact is that their professional organizations provide some of the most sophisticated health seminars in the country for their breeders.

Twenty years ago, animal activists created the phrase “puppy mill”. Back then, it was only applied to commercial breeders, and then only to those who were breaking the law by neglecting their dogs. In a futile attempt to placate activists, many hobby breeders adopted the term “puppy mill” and used it to separate “them” from “us”. It was a mistake then, and it’s rapidly becoming fatal today. Every one of these so-called “anti-puppy-mill bills” has a definition that could easily include breeders of hunting and show dogs. Every time you use that phrase, you’re contributing to the idea that dog breeders need to be regulated out of existence.

The message we need to send to America is that purebred dogs are good, not just because they have pedigrees, but because of their predictability, and that people should shop at least as carefully for a puppy as they do for a car. We don’t need to help the animal radicals spread their message by using their favorite term: puppy mill.


Heather

Caché Havanese
"What Lies Behind Us And What Lies Before Us
Are Tiny Matters Compared To What Lies Within Us."



Here are some links to help educate yourself in how to fight for your rights to continue to own and love your animals. Please do not be mislead by PETA or HSUS who is PETA in suits.
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