Adult vs Puppy Decision - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-18-2016, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
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Adult vs Puppy Decision

After lots and lots of reading, watching several videos and thinking real hard I've decided to go ahead with bringing a puppy into our lives. Seeing pups being trained, remembering the bonding experience with my last dog and living with all that total cuteness 24/7...well, the decision has been made.

The puppy will actually be a Havana Silk. Besides being our pet we'll be training in obedience, rally, agility and nosework. All of the posts I've seen on the forum have been soooo inspiring.

Now the waiting begins as the puppy hasn't been born yet. We're away on vacation but the shopping for baby items will begin as soon as we return home.
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-18-2016, 09:19 PM
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After lots and lots of reading, watching several videos and thinking real hard I've decided to go ahead with bringing a puppy into our lives. Seeing pups being trained, remembering the bonding experience with my last dog and living with all that total cuteness 24/7...well, the decision has been made.

The puppy will actually be a Havana Silk. Besides being our pet we'll be training in obedience, rally, agility and nosework. All of the posts I've seen on the forum have been soooo inspiring.

Now the waiting begins as the puppy hasn't been born yet. We're away on vacation but the shopping for baby items will begin as soon as we return home.
Congratulations! It is certainly great fun and very rewarding raising puppy.

I just want to make sure ahead of time, that a Havana Silk Dog, even though they are essentially exactly the same bloodlines as many Havanese, are NOT AKC registered dogs. If you show them in AKC events, you have to show them as "All American" and they must be spayed or neutered before getting this designation. For many people, that's no issue. For other people it is.

I have no bias against Silk Dogs... One of mine is double registered as a Silk Dog and an AKC Havanese, (this is no longer allowed by the Silk club) and another of mine is exactly the same lines as Silks, but my breeder chose to register her dogs as AKC Havanese when it was no longer possible to double register. So Pixel is "just" a Havanese. But I do want to make sure you know the differences (and lack of difference) between AKC Havanese and Silk Dogs.
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-19-2016, 06:37 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the information regarding registration of the HSD. I have no intentions of breeding so the spay or neuter requirement isn't an issue. I'd wait until after the pup is over one year old due to bone development concerns.

Most of the training groups in my area are involved in UKC . Do you know how that registry would work? I've done some cursory checking but don't know anything for sure yet.

My choice of dog is totally "non-political". Actually hubby was pushing for another dog after the loss of our 15 yr old Jack Russell followed by the loss of our 10 yr old Dobe. He has had his eye on a Havanese for a couple of years. The breeder was fun to talk to and very thorough. Health testing was emphasized, a very important thing to me.

I spent the last six months of our intact male Dobe's life dedicated to his medical care, most of it through Michigan State University. He came from lines that were all health tested and known for longevity. Everything he shouldn't have suffered he suffered. I sure hope we don't have to go through anything like that again.
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-19-2016, 06:55 AM
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I'm sorry to hear about your Jack Russell and Doby. We had a Westie for 14 years that also came from a line that were all health tested.
Everything she shouldn't have suffered she suffered also. We now have a wonderful Havanese. He has brought such joy into our home.
We don't regret our decision.
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-19-2016, 08:53 AM
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Thank you for the information regarding registration of the HSD. I have no intentions of breeding so the spay or neuter requirement isn't an issue. I'd wait until after the pup is over one year old due to bone development concerns.

Most of the training groups in my area are involved in UKC . Do you know how that registry would work? I've done some cursory checking but don't know anything for sure yet.

My choice of dog is totally "non-political". Actually hubby was pushing for another dog after the loss of our 15 yr old Jack Russell followed by the loss of our 10 yr old Dobe. He has had his eye on a Havanese for a couple of years. The breeder was fun to talk to and very thorough. Health testing was emphasized, a very important thing to me.

I spent the last six months of our intact male Dobe's life dedicated to his medical care, most of it through Michigan State University. He came from lines that were all health tested and known for longevity. Everything he shouldn't have suffered he suffered. I sure hope we don't have to go through anything like that again.
While you shouldn't do AGILITY until your pup is over a year, there is absolutely NO reason to wait on obedience training (which includes rally moves) that long. There is nothing done in obedience training at the lower levels that can in anyway injure your puppy. Even if you got to the point that you were doing the obedience jumping exercises (unlikely in your puppy's first year) you can teach them all they need to know with a bar on the ground, then raise the height slowly as they approach the one year mark.

We don't have a TON of UKC in this area (although there is some) and I haven't done it. I'm not sure if HSD are a "recognized breed" with them or not. I do know that the people who show UKC love it, and if the DO recognize HSD's, they have conformation classes for spayed/neutered dogs, so you can have fun playing in the conformation ring too!

As I said, I was trying to give you the "non-political" information on the differences, just to make sure you understood. Believe me, since I got Kodi at the height of the "flame wars", and he is double registered, I CERTAINLY took my share of it. I wouldn't wish that on anybody!!! Fortunately, MOST people have settled down now, and while there is still SOME vitriol left around, most people are pretty willing to live and let live. There have been quite a few HSD people at the Havanese national specialty the two times I've been there, and everyone was pleasant to each other.

While the HSD people are excellent about health testing, (which is why the originally broke off from main stream Havanese) the GOOD thing that followed all the nastiness is that many more Havanese breeders (virtually ALL of the GOOD breeders) now thoroughly health test their breeding stock. There are still BAD Havanese breeders out there, but my guess is that not all the HSD breeders do everything I'd want done either. You just can't control individuals that much.

One thing that HSD breeders do, that many fewer Havanese breeders do (although there are Havanese breeders who DO do it, or will if you specifically request it) is "soaped" photos of the parents and the puppies you are interested in. The breeder of my older two has soaped photos of all her breeding stock on her web page. Proof positive that the dogs have straight legs and good conformation. The breeder of my younger puppy didn't soap the parents (as far as I know... I never saw photos) but we did do soaps of the puppies before I committed to Panda. I loved her personality, but a dog with poor conformation or crooked lags is not useful to me as a sound performance dog. So, for other people reading this, whether you are purchasing a Havanese or a Havana Silk Dog, if you are serious about performance competition, ask for soaped pictures. While most good Havanese and Silk Dog people have removed most of the CD dogs from their breeding pool, there are still plenty of bad fronts out there, in both "flavors". And just like with a horse, a bad front isn't going to hold up to a lot of jumping, even if you wait until over a year to start doing it.

Congratulations on your decision! As long as you are OK with not being AKC registered (which really doesn't matter if you plan to spay/neuter) you can find lovely puppies and great breeders from both groups. We expect lots of pictures!!!
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-20-2016, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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Karen I agree with you about not jumping a dog prior to a year old. From jumping horse days I recall someone saying that the horse has a certain number of jumps in him, don't squander them. I feel that way about my dogs too. My Dobe practically took flight over the meter jump. While it was a sight to behold I limited his jumping.

My Jack Russell Terrier had a UKC agility title. Many years ago I showed Afghan Hounds (had 4 of them at one time). That experience helps me understand the "flame wars" you referenced! My Dobe had a Schutzhund title...a German sport consisting of tracking, obedience and protection. All three phases consist of intense obedience and our training was all motivational based.

Anyway....I do appreciate all input regarding this new venture with a puppy. This will be an experience I never imagined. Such a little, hairy dog that I keep looking at pictures of. They are about as appealing as one could ever imagine.
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-20-2016, 12:50 PM
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I spent the last six months of our intact male Dobe's life dedicated to his medical care, most of it through Michigan State University. He came from lines that were all health tested and known for longevity. Everything he shouldn't have suffered he suffered. I sure hope we don't have to go through anything like that again.
Good genetics and thorough health testing is only the jumping off place in regards to health. Environmental, nutritional and toxic load have just as much an effect on health and longevity. Here's hoping your Havanese is just perfect!
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