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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-25-2007, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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Please Explain

Could someone explain in layman(pet owner) terms the conroversy behind the HSD split off and why it has become so heated. Please Explain what it means to the Havanese we now own and what it will mean for the breed in the future.

I know some where in that thread there is that answer but I get lost in all the anger and technical explanations. (I'm not really stupid - I just play one when things get hot) Maybe we can agree that this thread will stay "nice" and "simple"




Missy, Jasper & Cash
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-25-2007, 09:15 AM
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Missy, i wish i could simply answer that but unfortunately I had a 'mind melt down' about 500 posts ago & i had to stop reading. It was getting crazy to me. I like the 'happier' posts!

Tripp, Jax, & Dreamer
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-25-2007, 09:24 AM
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As a Canadian looking in, I find this whole thing very confusing too. But I don't believe it will effect pet owners at all. Some day there "maybe" a choice between the "HSD" and our beloved Havanese. One good thing that I hope will happen is breeders on both sides will carefully look at the dogs they are producing and not breed dogs that have health issues.

I think it has gotten so heated is because alot of feelings have been hurt on both sides.

I know this really doesn't answer your questions, just putting in my 2 cents.

"Hav" a Great Day,
Debbie & Sam & Delilah
www.lossombrahavanese.com


"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Suess.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-25-2007, 09:34 AM
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I personally think, as just a dog owner, it will mean more choices for us. As to who we get our dogs from & what 'look' we like best. Could be a good thing.

Tripp, Jax, & Dreamer
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-25-2007, 10:04 AM
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There is a very interesting article in today's Newsday in the Animal House column, written by Denise Flaim. Titled "A Shepherd Breed of Their Own?" it explains about the German Shepherd and the White German Shepherd.
The White German Shepherd has been recognized as a breed unto itself by the UKC, but the AKC refuses to do so. "The white disqualification in the AKC standard was based purely on function, not aesthetics or health."

"Without the blessing of the German Shepherd Dog Club of America - or at least absence of its objection - the AKC will not consider any request by white shepherd fanciers to separate into their own breed."

Carmen Battaglia who wrote "Breeding Better Dogs" said "If I took a DNA swab from a white German Shepherd dog and asked a geneticist to tell me what breed it was, the answer would be "This is a German shepherd dog". The only variation would be in color".


Michele
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-25-2007, 10:07 AM
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Something that I heard explained this weekend at the Hav play date was this:
If I'm a breeder and my line of Havanese is from a dog named, for instance, Bruno. I've bred Bruno's daughter to other lines but my breeding program's basis is Bruno.
Bruno's breeder has now decided that Bruno and his line are now Havana Silk Dogs. I have a new litter. I have a buyer for "Fifi". The buyer looks at "Fifi's pedigree and sees that there are Havanese, but wait, there's also a Havana Silk dog there. Is Fifi a cross between a Havanese and a Havana Silk Dog? Is she a mutt?? Has my breeding program just been decimated and do I have to start all over with a new line?

Susan

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-25-2007, 10:32 AM
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From past experience with dog clubs and hearing the first announcement to reading all of the post. I feel; it will not affect the Havanese we own at all, the HSD felt the HCA was not doing enough to correct the major health problems of the breed, so they started their own breed. In their experience while breeding to correct thes issues they found some very common denominators one being the silky coat. As I said before it is like opening Pandora’s Box, with so many puppy mills wanting in on the high priced breeds and pet people breeding and not knowing the difference you will never be able to correct the Havanese breed entirely, what is done is done.

I know there are Havanese breeders in the HCA that will always do what is the very best for the breed, and now the HSDC will do what is best for the dogs they are trying to accomplish. If the HSDC do use the 2 year 5 generation rule, they should be able to achieve their goal. The better breeders in the HCA probably already have diluted or eradicated these problems from their lines. If not, we as pet owners should be asking “why?” before we buy.

One thing to remember if someone has AKC papers that allows them to breed their dogs it does not matter what the quality is or the health, AKC will register the get and not ask any questions. These breeders do not have to be members of any organization, care about the health or structure of the animals they breed. This happens in all breeds not just the Havanese. To me this is probably where most of the problems lie.

Sandi, taking a new road with Smarty and Galen
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-25-2007, 10:46 AM
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To me personally,as a pet owner only--
I think the reason for the split was due to lack of communication and /competition/jealousy amongst breeders and showpeople.Perhaps frustration on both sides.
I think the reason for the hostility was the way the break off was stated.As just a pet owner,I felt "slapped in the face" and so I can just imagine how it must feel to have put years into the HCA and your dogs as a breeder ,and then have someone infer they are not as good as their Havana Silks and they have the only "true" dog from Cuba etc. I do not think,or hope not,that the HS people meant it the way it came out.........
I don't think in the long run,it will have any effect on the dogs we currently own and love in the pet world...I think it could have an impact on future havanese.....we already have a choice,you can choose any breeder you want and choose one that health tests or one who doesn't.In the future,if it works out for them,a havanese or a havana silk.Perhaps the difference will be in coat?Who knows?Time will tell I guess.I guess it could be just as simple as I want a yorkie or a poodle...though the differences I think would be subtle at best as far as looks,based on a quality havanese and a so called havana silk of today.
That's my opinion..........

Vincent-Quincy's playmate

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-25-2007, 10:57 AM
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Susan, when AKC recognizes the HSD it will not change the pedigrees of the dogs listed. Some dogs may be listed as foundation dogs with dual registrations, but all the get will be listed as the breed they are when first registered.

Sandi, taking a new road with Smarty and Galen
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-25-2007, 11:22 AM
Susan
 
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Sandi,
Thanks, that makes sense.

Susan

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