I am at my wit's end - 4:20 a.m. - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 05:01 AM Thread Starter
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I am at my wit's end - 4:20 a.m.

Loki has decided that waking up around 4:30 is the right thing to do. I disagree!!!!! He is in his Richell expandable crate (which is as big as it goes) in the family room. He barks and barks and barks some more if we don't go down. He has a UGoDog which sometimes he uses sometimes not. Even if he uses it he continues to bark and whine. He won't go back in his crate after we let him out - he really goes crazy. He will settle down again after about 1/2 hour if someone stays in the family room with him.

He also demand barks if he is in his crate but he can hear me in the house. It is just demand barking. When he hears me coming his way, he quiets, and sits looking all angelic wagging his tail.

I need help.


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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 06:36 AM
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As hard as it is, the ONLY way to curb demand barking is to TOTALLY ignore it. It will get worse for a while, (this is called an extinction burst) but he will eventually learn that it just doesn't pay.

The other alternative is to give in, and decide that he can sleep in your room with you.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 07:59 AM
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As hard as it is, the ONLY way to curb demand barking is to TOTALLY ignore it. It will get worse for a while, (this is called an extinction burst) but he will eventually learn that it just doesn't pay.

The other alternative is to give in, and decide that he can sleep in your room with you.
Karen's right. It is hard but it is the only way. Demand barking is for attention. Any attention. A puppy has to learn that demand barking does not elicit ANY response - positive or negative. Puppies can be very persistent in their demand for attention especially when it has worked for them. All family members must understand and agree to fully comply with the strategy of ignoring demand barking. Not so much as a glance in the puppy's direction. With persistent, consistent ignoring of demand barking, your puppy will learn that it no longer works to get him attention. It won't be easy but it just like a child using temper tantrums and nagging to get what they want. As long as you know he is safe and has been potty or has an option for potty, then you must resolve to ignore his demands for attention.


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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 08:18 AM
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I couldn't say it better. During the day, Cubby now 14 weeks old, will be in his crate or expen where he can see me. I never let him out if he is whining. I am beginning to learn the difference between a whine to go out potty and a whine to get attention. I had the same experience and I was going crazy. I will say, that if Cubby does not do 1 and 2 prior to bed he gets us up in about 6-7 hours.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks. I have been working on it but he seems to have more resolve than I do. How long should I let him bark? In the mornings, he has the kibble portion of his breakfast, then we go for a 1/2 mile walk, and then I give him a Kong with wet food in his crate while I go to shower. He goes in the crate automatically when he sees the Kong. As soon as he finishes eating, he starts barking and will bark for at least 45 minutes. As soon as I head down the stairs, he quits barking. I think he has been treated enough for quiet that he knows I will only get him if he is quiet. He sits there like an angel wagging his tail after just barking for 45 minutes. I usually let him out to potty and run around while I gather my belongings for work. I get out a snack for him and he runs right back in his crate. I then leave before he can bark again.

So should I just let him bark while I get ready and not take him out...though he doesn't bark if he can see me. He can potty on the UGoDog.

Also, this morning he barked from 4:20 until 5:30 when Marc had to get up. Same routine when someone comes downstairs...quiet until they get to his crate.

UGH! He is so stubborn.


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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 09:09 AM
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Barbara...I know the feeling. Demand barking is very frustrating to deal with. I feel your pain.



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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 10:55 AM
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Exercise, physical and mental, will burn off energy and which will lead to a calmer dog. Also looking at the time you put him to bed, ensuring thorough elimination of pee and poo before bedtime, complete ignoring of demand barking, reworking of your routine to be certain you aren't inadvertently reinforcing the demand barking are all things you can do to help your pup fit more smoothly into your life. Leo and Rex play hard with each other for 45 minutes in the mornings until they have both collapsed into heavy breathing heaps. A 1/2 mile walk is probably barely touching Loki's need for exercise. At his age he needs more exercise but not forced walking. Teach him to fetch or find other training/games you can engage him with so that he is truly tired. This should help him sleep longer over night. Also I tend to all of the dogs needs in the morning before I head to the shower then get ready for work without further interaction with them. Just get ready and leave with "see you later guys"!


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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Barbara Levy View Post
Thanks. I have been working on it but he seems to have more resolve than I do. How long should I let him bark? In the mornings, he has the kibble portion of his breakfast, then we go for a 1/2 mile walk, and then I give him a Kong with wet food in his crate while I go to shower. He goes in the crate automatically when he sees the Kong. As soon as he finishes eating, he starts barking and will bark for at least 45 minutes. As soon as I head down the stairs, he quits barking. I think he has been treated enough for quiet that he knows I will only get him if he is quiet. He sits there like an angel wagging his tail after just barking for 45 minutes. I usually let him out to potty and run around while I gather my belongings for work. I get out a snack for him and he runs right back in his crate. I then leave before he can bark again.

So should I just let him bark while I get ready and not take him out...though he doesn't bark if he can see me. He can potty on the UGoDog.

Also, this morning he barked from 4:20 until 5:30 when Marc had to get up. Same routine when someone comes downstairs...quiet until they get to his crate.

UGH! He is so stubborn.
As long as he has access to a potty, I would NEVER go to him if he's barking. And if he stops just because he sees you, that's not good enough... he CLEARLY think's he's got you trained. Sit down and read the news paper. Ignore him for longer. YOU decide, not him. Be strong! In the end, it will be better for ALL of you, including him!


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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 05:41 PM
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When Mayzie first came home, she loved me immediately and didn't want me to leave her. When she was in her ex-pen (which is about 4 feet away from me), she would cry and whine. If I left, she barked even louder. I did try ignoring her, but the other 2 people who lives here (DH and DD) were on me to put an end to it faster. I tried using a loud noise (similar to pennies in a jar...I used pebbles in tupperware), but no. So I resorted to using a spray bottle filled with water, and when she barked inappropriately, I said "hush" and squirted her once in the face. She didn't like that sensation, but it certainly didn't hurt. If she barked when I was out of earshot, I returned, said "hush", and squirted her.

It took a few times (like 3) and a few evenings (like 3) and she completely stopped. It stopped when I was within eye shot, and it stopped when I wasn't.

She also barked and cried when she slept in her closed crate at night. I moved it to my room, I even tried sleeping with her crate on my bed, but ultimately, I had to put the crate on the floor, and when she barked, I said "hush" and squirted her once. It stopped almost immediately.

I know there are other opinions on using punishment, and I am not offended if others say this is not a good way. Just wanted to give my two cents on what I used when this happened to me.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 06:04 PM
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Yeah, not a great choice. Especially if you want to do further training with your dog. There are non-punitive ways of training almost all behavior, and it's a slippery slope to the "dark side".
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