Picking the right puppy from the litter (color/temperment) - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 11:46 PM Thread Starter
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Picking the right puppy from the litter (color/temperment)

Is there a way to figure out which babies will have the best chance of being the most calm/laid back/affectionate dog as an adult? How can i analyze the litter and figure out which baby will grow up to most likely not be too energetic and hyper and instead be calmer and more laid back but very velcro type of lap dog who always wants to hang out and be next to us. Basically be super affectionate? Is there a way to tell? Perhaps just pick the baby thats calmer and is always coming towards us and hanging out instead of going hyper jumping around?

Also Is there anyways to tell what color the baby will grow up to be? When i pick my baby from the litter (probably in the next year or 2), i will definitely pick depending on temperament/personality traits that the baby is exhibiting however if multiple babies exhibit the traits i am looking for then i will then choose the color that is most appealing to me and would prefer it to stay similar to the color rather then change. So how exactly can i tell which colors will change and which wont and if so is there a way to tell what they will change to?

Brown/light brownish is probably my most preferred color. followed by any mixes of color . So if i do pick a lightish brown color, it would be good if i can tell if it will remain that color. Is this possible or is this all just a gamble? Either way it would be fine obviously but just wondering if getting the prefer color is possible to pick.

And lastly is there a website that gives most likely outcomes of the litter of certain color parent combinations?

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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 11:59 PM
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Havanese often change colors. Check out this website which explains the phenomenon and gives definitions & pictures of all the color varieties.

Colours of the Rainbow

Jeanne and Emmie

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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 12:33 AM
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I think you may be right in looking at a litter of puppies that the ones that aren't going crazy and are just hanging out with you may be the calmer more affectionate ones. The puppy will definitely choose you. As for coloring, it is a gamble. Moxie was black and white at birth, but changed to a pewter and white, still gorgeous because of structure, but not the same in coloring. There are some black and white puppies that have the Belton gene, also called ticking. The black and bright white puppy turns into a freckled salt and pepper color depending on the intensity of the gene. It's kind of like black freckles appearing on the white areas. Then there's the sables, they're the brownish/reddish pups with black tips. They tend to lose their color and turn a creamy white I think, sometimes. I think Bowie is a reddish/gold sable. He still has his black tips, but if I ever trim him they will be gone forever. His face has lightened a lot, but his body seems to be keeping his color thus far. He'll be 6 months on the 14th, I have no idea how he will turn out. There are many other combinations of colors. Online there's a site called Colors of the Rainbow that describes all the different variations. I hope I helped and I hope I my information was correct.
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 02:11 AM
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The chocolates are one of the colors that have a tendency to lighten. Truffles was a dark chocolate as a puppy and has lightened quite a bit.

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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 07:48 AM
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If you deal with a reputable breeder they will be the best person to tell you about the temperament of the puppies. Some breeders even pick out the puppy that each family will get, based on the family members(? young children), or experience with dogs, or whether you want to do agility, etc. My puppy was very small compared to her brothers and there was no way my breeder was going to place her in a home with very young children. As far as color goes, just be prepared for a possible color change and you won't be shocked if it does.
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 08:08 AM
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The best way to get the right temperament for your needs is to work with an excellent, experienced breeder who knows her lines and her puppies. She will have a very good idea of the temperaments in the litter. Good breeders also often temperament test their litters. Temperament testing is NOT fool-proof, but it gives a little more data and is often a good check on what the breeder is seeing in the puppies.

Trying to figure out temperament based on a visit (or even a few visits) can be a fool's errand. ALL puppies (unless they are WAY outside the norm) are wild and playful some of the time, and sleepy and cuddly other times. It's the nature of young animals. It will depend on when you see them. It's really, REALLY important to be honest with your breeder about what you want, and then trust her judgement. If you don't think you CAN trust her judgement, find another breeder.

As far as others have said, Havanese colors can be pretty tricky. Sables almost ALWAYS fade to some extent. Some less, some more. Many end up being essentially white dogs. Chocolates are also likely to fade, especially chocolate sables. Reds are more likely to maintain their color, though red sables are born VERY dark, then lighten somewhat. Still not as much as other sables, though. There is also a color called "brindle". In this color, the puppy will have black and brown "tiger stripes" at birth. They fade just the way sables do, and when their coasts start to get a bit longer, you can't see the stripes anyway. The way they do often differ from sables is that most brindles retain a black or dark mask around their mouth, nose and eyes.

The best bet in terms of remaining a specific color is black (or black and white) from a line that carries neither the silver gene nor the belton gene. The silver gene modifies the coat by adding white hair over time. Some, like my Pixel, have just a TINY sprinkle of white hairs that you have to look close to see. Others, like her sister, turn the color of a silver poodle. Someone already explained the belton gene. This one is tricky too... Some, like my Kodi remains essentially a B&W dog with a SPRINKLING of small black stripes. (which show most when the dog is wet) On others, the belton markings are so dense that all the once white areas become sooty grey as they mature. My Panda is what is now as a B&W with "clear" markings... meaning she doesn't carry the belton gene, and has no black spots sprinkled in her white area.

In general, you can tell SOMETHING about whether a puppy will lighten by looking around their eyes, under their arm pits and the roots of the hair on the coat. If the puppy has light "spectacles", or if the hair is significantly lighter in the other areas mentioned, the puppy will CERTAINLY lighten substantially. Silvering (which can be a modifying gene in any color, BTW, and I am pretty sure is the cause of Truffle's substantial lightening) can be obvious at the time puppies go home... or not. If they have only one copy of the gene, you may see no signs of it at that age. You can rarely see belton markings (again, this gene can modify color on ANY Havanese... it's just most obvious on the B&W's) at the time puppy's leave for their new homes. You really have to depend on the breeder knowing her lines. If one of the parents is a belton, it's likely that the B&W puppies in the litter will be too. How much they darken is guess-work.

All of the above is to say why it is SO important not to pick a Havanese puppy based on color... What you see is probably NOT what you are going to get by the time the dog is an adult! The only colors definitely to be avoided by breeders are blue (which is not an allowed color) and merle (also not allowed, and linked to some major health issues) However, a reputable breeder is VERY unlikely to have merle puppies cropping up in their litters. A FEW good breeders have some Cuban stock with does, legitimately, carry blue. So they might want to place a blue puppy in a pet home, and there is no harm in that.
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 08:21 AM
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My Lola didn't start changing until she was around eight months old. She was a deep mahogany before that. She's both lightening and silvering, though some parts of her head are still really dark brown at the roots. Here she is at ten weeks, nine months, and at a year and a half, and although you really can't see in the picture, her undercoat is completely silver.
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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 10:24 AM
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the breeder can give some tendencies on the temperament but in the end the puppy will be largely dependent and a product of it's environment. A shy puppy is not what you want , that's the main thing. Colour shouldn't even be a factor. here is an article http://www.dogstardaily.com/training...ing-your-puppy and here http://www.dogstardaily.com/training...ect-good-puppy

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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 11:58 AM
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Although many folks dwell on color and gender when selecting a pup, for me, temperament out weighs both.

If you are getting a puppy, and you want a mellow adult, don't expect that to happen till age 3-4 or more.

Like folks have already said, the breeder should be your guide to the right fit for your household.

Of course YOU have a lot to do with how your pup will turn out as an adult.

For me, there were only 3 boys in the litter. I wanted a boy, because my other dog at the time was female. I know I didn't want the alpha (it was obvious which pup was the alpha of the litter). and I personally did a couple of the test items from the link below, but my Ollie showed the most interest in me, so that's why I picked him and not his non-alpha brother. good luck.

Volhard Dog Training and Nutrition: Behavior and Training: Behavior
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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by davetgabby View Post
the breeder can give some tendencies on the temperament but in the end the puppy will be largely dependent and a product of it's environment. A shy puppy is not what you want , that's the main thing. Colour shouldn't even be a factor. here is an article Choosing Your Puppy | Dog Star Daily and here How to Select a Good Puppy | Dog Star Daily
Largely, but not completely. It is NOT completely "nature" it's not completely "nurture". It is a very mixed up combination of the two. So many of the dogs in rescue get there because, Basically, they have poor dispositions. Not all, by ANY means. But many of them. IMO, good breeders breed for health and disposition above ALL else.

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