Spaying Advice - HELP! - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
 49Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
Mom to Rosie
 
FancyNancy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New Paltz, NY
Posts: 454
Submit Photo: 40
Photo Submissions 5 Times in 5 Posts
Spaying Advice - HELP!

Hi Everyone-
Please pardon me if this topic has been hammered to death but lots of the posts on it were very old so I though I would test the waters on everyones thoughts now.

My little tiny Rosebud is just 6 months old and 7.5 lbs. I had her scheduled for a spay in 2 days and today I freaked out and decided to cancel. I thought:

1)maybe she's too young - thoughts? If so, when is the best time?

2)Maybe I should have the procedure done after she's had 1-2 heats- thoughts?

3) maybe I should have an OVERYECTOMY rather than have her uterus removed - this is common in Europe and I have found a vert near me who does it. Thoughts?

HELP! What do you think? Karen Randall - want to weigh in on this?

Thanks so much Forumites! I look forward to your experience and knowledge.

FancyNancy is offline  
The Following User Nominates FancyNancy Great Photo:
RedSoxFan (12-06-2017)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 09:04 AM
Senior Member
 
ShamaMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,951
Submit Photo: 2
Photo Submissions 62 Times in 61 Posts
We waited until Shama had her first heat. She was over a year old. You can search my threads for the topic. We knew we wanted her to be an agility dog, so we wanted to give her bones more time to grow before removing her source of hormones. Both our breeder and our vet recommended waiting. A trainer I know recommended we wait until she was two years old, but we didn't wait that long. I think the reason many people encourage early spaying and neutering is just to avoid unwanted puppies (and perhaps a heat cycle), but I think a responsible owner (who's not going to allow her dog to get pregnant or impregnate another dog) can wait until the dog is at least a year old. Good luck! I'm sure others will weigh in.
krandall, Maistjarna and Marni like this.

ShamaMama is offline  
The Following 2 Users Nominate ShamaMama Great Photo:
FancyNancy (08-22-2017), RedSoxFan (12-06-2017)
post #3 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:52 AM
Senior Member
 
Sheri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho
Posts: 6,239
Submit Photo: 11
Photo Submissions 51 Times in 48 Posts
Canine Hormone Support for Spayed or Neutered Dogs

This is by Karen Becker, and has a lot of things to think about before spaying or neutering. I wish I'd known 10 years ago. She does talk about a product she has developed to help those of us where our dogs were already neutered long ago if we are having problems, but most of the link talks about her reasoning behind waiting longer to spay or neuter.

Sheri, Tucker's Mom

Last edited by Sheri; 08-22-2017 at 10:56 AM.
Sheri is offline  
 
post #4 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 01:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Dee Dee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,038
Submit Photo: 1
Photo Submissions 40 Times in 40 Posts
I agree I did the same as ShamaMama waited til after first heat, Sophie was about 1 yr 2 months old.
Sheri has a great link I too which I had known more before spaying I may not have at all. On the other hand going through those heat cycles are no fun for us or them and there is a small increase risk of mammary cancer if you don't spay before 2-3 heat cycles. I trust our holistic vet and with the information we have on all this she suggested also between first and second heat cycle.

The rule of thumb is to wait for the growth plates to close which should happen by around 18 months old max. It varies from dog to dog. You can't tell for sure without an Xray though.

FWIW I talked to a dog savvy friend of mine in the UK who said she has not seen a decrease in health issues in dogs there that have never been spayed or neutered. But that is of course a limited experience although she does agility and shows and knows a lot of breeders etc.
Scarlett's mom likes this.
Dee Dee is offline  
post #5 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 03:57 PM
Senior Member
 
Sheri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho
Posts: 6,239
Submit Photo: 11
Photo Submissions 51 Times in 48 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Dee View Post
FWIW I talked to a dog savvy friend of mine in the UK who said she has not seen a decrease in health issues in dogs there that have never been spayed or neutered. But that is of course a limited experience although she does agility and shows and knows a lot of breeders etc.
Interesting to know.

Sheri, Tucker's Mom
Sheri is offline  
post #6 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 06:36 PM
Senior Member
 
Scarlett's mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: NJ
Posts: 218
Submit Photo: 2
Photo Submissions 5 Times in 5 Posts
My vet (holistic) told me after 1 and maybe 2 or 3 heat seasons.

My vet:

http://www.drjudymorgan.com/articles...o-spay-neuter/

hope it's ok to post this lnk.
krandall likes this.

Last edited by Scarlett's mom; 08-22-2017 at 06:40 PM.
Scarlett's mom is offline  
The Following User Nominates Scarlett's mom Great Photo:
Mikki (10-25-2018)
post #7 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-23-2017, 08:06 AM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,503
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 296 Times in 294 Posts
I think that the thinking at this point is that as long as you can ensure that the girl will not get pregnant (I know you can) that it is best to wait until AT LEAST after the first heat and first birthday. Pixel didn't go into heat the first time until 14 months, so was spayed at about 18 months (after a false pregnancy that was TONS of fun! LOL!)

Panda has had two heats and is still not spayed. My vet feels that it is best to wait until after the second birthday with a performance dog anyway, and in Panda's case, I'm still not entirely sure I don't want to put her back in the conformation show ring. (and I want to leave other options one as well )

Yes there is a SLIGHTLY higher risk of mammary cancers in females spayed later, but my vet feels that in the hands of conscientious dog owners, who will IMMEDIATELY report any lumps, that they can be caught early, when it is still possible to completely cure. There is definitely LESS chance of ACL/CCL tears in intact dogs, which is a big issue in performance dogs.

As far as the ovariectomy is concerned, that's what we did with Pixel (laparoscopically). However she had a LOT of pain, which I have since found is not uncommon in very small dogs, because of the size of the instruments and the amount of gas they need to use to blow the abdomen up enough to see in that tiny body. When I discussed the whole thing with my vet after the fact (she is not the one who did the ovariectomy) she said that she thought they did very good pain management with a traditional spay, and could visualize the reproductive organs more easily (thus creating less trauma to the tissues) in a tiny dog with an open spay. Of course, there is a bigger incision to heal, but the internal healing is a toss up with the little ones.

Also, you may not even find someone who would do a laparoscopic procedure on a less than 8 lb dog. Pixel is a (whopping ) almost 10 lbs and the vet said she was as small as she was willing to work on. She said that because a Havanese was a little longer bodies than, say, a 10 lb Pomeranian, it gave her more room to work.

After having done it once on a Havanese, I don't think I'd choose it again. Pixel had a miserable time, and while she IS a bit of a baby about things, I am not at all sure a traditional spay with a good surgeon would have been any worse... And my regular vet does traditional spays. I had to travel a long distance to have it done. This is not at all a financial decision, though. The laparoscopic procedure was only about $100 more than a traditional spay locally would have been. ($700 vs. about $600)
Jeanniek likes this.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is online now  
The Following User Nominates krandall Great Photo:
RedSoxFan (12-06-2017)
post #8 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 01:27 AM
Senior Member
 
Dee Dee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,038
Submit Photo: 1
Photo Submissions 40 Times in 40 Posts
I did not know any of that Karen! As you know Sophie had a horrible time with her laparoscopic spay also which was such a surprise since that was supposed to be the much easier route. Not one vet mentioned any of these things you just wrote about which really ticks me off. I too now wish I had done a traditional spay with better pain management it was a really miserable time from the moment she woke up screaming her lungs out and a long painful recovery.
krandall likes this.
Dee Dee is offline  
post #9 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 08:19 AM
Senior Member
 
ShamaMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,951
Submit Photo: 2
Photo Submissions 62 Times in 61 Posts
Poor Pixel and Sophie! So glad they feel better now! Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.
Dee Dee likes this.

ShamaMama is offline  
post #10 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 11:45 AM
Member
 
equi11frnd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 31
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Nominations 1 Time in 1 Post
I just thank goodness for this forum. I look here and always find helpful suggestions to my questions. My girl, Remi, is a one year and one month. She had her first heat at 8 months which was a miserable time with her full brother. Even with him neutered it made no difference in him thinking he was fully capable of being a man. I don't look forward to going through that again, but I definitely want to make sure I do the right thing for her joints as we are just beginning working with some agility and she LOVES it. She is also just barely 10 lbs the way smallest of my three. Thank you for the link to the Dr Becker video. I believe I am definitely going to struggle through a few more heats. I feel a bit badly about neutering my male now at 15 months but after being 100% house broken he started marking all over the place. Neutering did stop that behavior, but my little girl has no issues. I did a late spay on my other Havanese female at about six years and had some small tumors removed then as well. She is fine vibrant and wonderful at 11. My vets are still a proponent of early spay to prevent mammary cancer and scolded me for the late spay. I still love my vets and find it hard to go against them. So thank you again for all the information everyone provides here!
Dee Dee likes this.
equi11frnd is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome