Dark brown growing from black? - Page 3 - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-11-2017, 09:46 AM
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Luna had a lush puppy coat!
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 01:47 PM
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This is a close up picture of Rexy?s back with some of his tail hair laid across. It distinctly shows how much his coat has silvered on his back. The silver continues to slowly spread. I expect that someday he will Be mostly silver.
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 03:19 PM
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I believe there rally are a FEW "Havana brow" Havanese. But they are EXTREMELY rare from what I've seen. I have yet to see a single dog that was "called" Havana brown as a puppy that actually grew up to be one. Every one that I know has either been "fading black" or some shade of silver... though some remain mostly black dogs with a few white hairs sprinkled in)

Kodi and Panda have both been blue-black from birth. They have never had any brown tinge to their black parts, nor do they have any white mixed into their black parts (Except that Panda has eyebrows, and Kodi has some white marks that are "scars" from tick bites)

MOST of the silver Havanese I know have gone through a "brownish" phase as adolescents.

But then... Pixel fooled us. She turned brownish, at just about the same time as Dee Dee's Sophie (they are both very close to the same age) Then both Pixel and Sophie developed some white hair mixed through their coats, and Pixel developed a splash of white behind one ear, and a wide white streak in her tail. Sophie, as Dee Dee has told you has gone on to become a darks silver on a lot of her body. Pixel, however has reverted, and is now as black asKodi, with NO white hair in her coat!!! Even the streak behind her ear and on her tail are gone!

The trouble with trying to figure a lot of this out is the we have genetic markers for only a few colors... And besides the base colors, Havanese also carry MANY "modifier" genes. And then "markings" can get in the way too. I THOUGHT Panda had "eyebrows" as a tiny puppy, but with the white on her face, you have to comb her hair JUST the right way to find them... and I wasn't sure. But we had her genetically tested for color, and she is "AT/AT", which means "points" (or eyebrows) so I DIDN'T imagine it... her white markings just confuse the issue.

So black can be "covered" by one or more copies of the silver gene... and there is also whatever gene makes "fading black", though we don't know exactly what that gene is.

There are only a couple of colors that will disqualify Havanese in the show ring (blue or merle) so few breeders bother to test for color. However, some breeders purposely avoid chocolate (because it's very hard to consistently produce chocolates with good pigment and eye color) while others purposely breed FOR chocolate (because so many pet people go crazy for them). Breed chocolate to chocolate, and you will, for sure get chocolate. But you also risk poor pigment. Breed clear red to clear red, and, again, for sure you will get puppies somewhere along the continuum from cream to dark red. But red sables are a lot more complicated in terms of their genetics. Different combinations of genes can come up with dogs that appear to the eye to be very similar "red sables". So more people do test for chocolate, and because reds have become so popular, and are tricky to reproduce, the breeders interested in breeding red dogs, or adding red to their lines are also more likely to color test.

As for all the rest? That's one of the charminging things about Havanese. It's hard to know, for sure, what you'll end up with!


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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 03:39 PM
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I had no idea that Havs did this color change thing! So interesting to read how all your pups changed their colors! Right now, Dahlia is black with a brownish tint in the sun and her muzzle is already fading to a brown. The hair between her toes is turning very brown with some silver worked in. I can’t wait to see her color change!
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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 01:45 PM
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Tagged, this seems like a very interesting thread
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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 12:21 PM
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Black that turns brownish happens for a number of reasons. It's not "Havana Brown" (which is exceedingly rare) and dogs never, EVER change from black to chocolate. Chocolate dogs have brown pigment on their nose and around their eyes and lips ALWAYS. Their coats can vary from very dar to totally white. If they have black pigment, they are not chocolate.

Black dogs sometimes sunburn. Other times brownish hair precedes silvering. Other times it precedes "fading black" (which ends up looking sort of charcoal grey) other times it comes and goes for no obvious reason. But this is not one of those "big color change things" that happen with Havanese. Quite honestly, this happens with black Labs too.


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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 08:21 AM
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Cool! I’m not particular about my Dahlia’s color. She’s such a pretty black right now and her nose and “eyeliner” are black as well. Still it’ll be cool to see where she settles in at.
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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 04:48 PM
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Cool! I’m not particular about my Dahlia’s color. She’s such a pretty black right now and her nose and “eyeliner” are black as well. Still it’ll be cool to see where she settles in at.
Pixel is the only one of mine who turned a "reddish-brownish-black" during adolescence. I thought it might be a sign that she would silver, since I knew there was silver in her family. (Her sister and littermate is a lovely silver, and that was obvious before she left the litter) Pixel DID develop a sprinkling of white hairs through her coat, and a pretty splash of white in her tail, so then I was SURE she was going to silver! (since I had two B&W dogs, I was kind of excited that I might end up with one of a different color! LOL!) Then all the white bits went away again, and all the brownish tint disappeared after she blew her puppy coat. As an adult, she is a shiny, coal-black dog with the tiny bits of white on her chest and toes she started with as a newborn. So I'm back to all B&W Havanese! LOL! That's OK, I have a matched set this way!
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 07:41 PM
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we were just noting that Oliver (he's a chocolate parti) has gotten way lighter than when we got him. It almost looks like he had his hair bleached or highlighted lol. His dark markings were dark chocolate and now they are more like a latte color at 7 months. I wonder if he'll continue to lighten. His dad kept the reddish color, mom got really light chocolate marks, almost white. the brown coloring is also a different texture than his white.
7 months and 7 weeks
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Melissa Woods View Post
we were just noting that Oliver (he's a chocolate parti) has gotten way lighter than when we got him. It almost looks like he had his hair bleached or highlighted lol. His dark markings were dark chocolate and now they are more like a latte color at 7 months. I wonder if he'll continue to lighten. His dad kept the reddish color, mom got really light chocolate marks, almost white. the brown coloring is also a different texture than his white.
7 months and 7 weeks
What a cutie! He really has lightened up. Almost looks like it’s got red in it. Is that just my screen or do you think so too?
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