nighttime crate locations - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
 2Likes
  • 1 Post By Molly120213
  • 1 Post By Henry&Kate
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-07-2018, 06:13 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
FutureHavMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 82
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Nominations 1 Time in 1 Post
nighttime crate locations

Hi, everyone! Just a few more weeks until we finally bring our boy home, and we can't wait! We're taking this time to puppy proof our home: covering wires, setting up x pen and crate, making vet appointment, set-up a routine for the first few weeks, etc. We know that we want to keep him in a crate at night, but we are uncertain about the location of the crate. I've read many stories about keeping a crate in one's bedroom. Have any of you kept your Hav in a crate in a separate room at night? Is there a benefit to that approach? Thanks, as always, for the great advice on this forum!

FutureHavMom is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-07-2018, 08:17 AM
Senior Member
 
Molly120213's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Webster, NY
Posts: 3,431
Submit Photo: 4
Photo Submissions 138 Times in 137 Posts
I have Molly’s crate in my bedroom. It has worked out well for me. I liked the fact that I could hear her if she needed me during the night. For the first week or so after I got her she did need to be taken out to go potty during the night. Since then there have been a couple times when she has been sick during the night and needed my attention. I actually tried moving her crate to another room at one time but she was miserable. I would suggest that you put the sleeping crate where you want it to be long term. They are creatures of habit and if you try to change the location, like I did, you may end up with a very vocal, unhappy pup!
krandall likes this.



Diane and Molly
Molly120213 is offline  
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-07-2018, 12:48 PM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,610
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 298 Times in 296 Posts
Kodi was in a crate/expen set-up in the dining room for his first two years. This was partly because my husband didn't want a dog in the bed room (he wasn't all that keen on getting a dog at all) and partly because our bedroom at that time was pretty small... JUST wide enough for a queen sized bed with a small night table on each side. We MIGHT have been able to fit a crate in somewhere, but it wouldn't have been easy or convenient. It was FINE. He adjusted with no problem at all, and we could have used that option indefinitely.

Fast forward 2 years, and we had a major renovation on our house, which included blowing out the front wall, adding two offices down stairs, and a master suite over them. This caused two changes. First, Kodi couldn't stay in the dining room during this, because, well, there was no wall for starters. We also had those floors re-done. SO, tight as it was, his crate moved up into our bedroom for the duration. Second, Kodi had done what havanese are so capable of doing, and charmed his way into Dave's heart. The "dog hater" still wasn't sure about dogs in general, but KODI was the apple of his eye.

So... when the renovation was done, Kodi moved into the master suite with us. There wasn't even any discussion about it. When the girls were added to the family, it was also a "given" that they would sleep in our room too. They all USUALLY sleep in their crates, although every now and then, one of them gets to sleep in "the big bed" as a special treat.

I think either can work absolutely fine. Decide where you want the dog to sleep, and make it so. The dog will adjust. I think where people run into trouble is if they let the puppy get USED to sleeping in the bedroom and then later decided that they want the dog elsewhere. Not that they dog still can't adjust to the new rules, but there is likely to be an unhappy, unpleasant period for all during that adjustment period.

So think carefully about STARTING with them in the bedroom if your plan is to eventually have them sleep elsewhere. When Kodi first came home, either my son or I slept on the couch near him down stairs for the first week, until we were sure he had settled in and adjusted to his "new digs". I'm not sure this was necessary for HIM, but it made US more comfortable that he was doing fine.

This was his dining room "bedroom":
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0639.jpg (79.6 KB, 5 views)


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is offline  
 
post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-07-2018, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
FutureHavMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 82
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Nominations 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by krandall View Post
Kodi was in a crate/expen set-up in the dining room for his first two years. This was partly because my husband didn't want a dog in the bed room (he wasn't all that keen on getting a dog at all) and partly because our bedroom at that time was pretty small... JUST wide enough for a queen sized bed with a small night table on each side. We MIGHT have been able to fit a crate in somewhere, but it wouldn't have been easy or convenient. It was FINE. He adjusted with no problem at all, and we could have used that option indefinitely.

Fast forward 2 years, and we had a major renovation on our house, which included blowing out the front wall, adding two offices down stairs, and a master suite over them. This caused two changes. First, Kodi couldn't stay in the dining room during this, because, well, there was no wall for starters. We also had those floors re-done. SO, tight as it was, his crate moved up into our bedroom for the duration. Second, Kodi had done what havanese are so capable of doing, and charmed his way into Dave's heart. The "dog hater" still wasn't sure about dogs in general, but KODI was the apple of his eye.

So... when the renovation was done, Kodi moved into the master suite with us. There wasn't even any discussion about it. When the girls were added to the family, it was also a "given" that they would sleep in our room too. They all USUALLY sleep in their crates, although every now and then, one of them gets to sleep in "the big bed" as a special treat.

I think either can work absolutely fine. Decide where you want the dog to sleep, and make it so. The dog will adjust. I think where people run into trouble is if they let the puppy get USED to sleeping in the bedroom and then later decided that they want the dog elsewhere. Not that they dog still can't adjust to the new rules, but there is likely to be an unhappy, unpleasant period for all during that adjustment period.

So think carefully about STARTING with them in the bedroom if your plan is to eventually have them sleep elsewhere. When Kodi first came home, either my son or I slept on the couch near him down stairs for the first week, until we were sure he had settled in and adjusted to his "new digs". I'm not sure this was necessary for HIM, but it made US more comfortable that he was doing fine.

This was his dining room "bedroom":
Thanks for this great info! It sounds like maybe our best bet is to start with him in the living room and then, in a few years, let him in the bedroom once he's grown and trained and can be trusted.

Here's another thing that's confusing. Can he be locked in his crate all night? Or do we have to get up around 2 am so he can pee? Or do we leave him in the expen so he can sleep in the crate but have access to the grass patch when he has to pee? Do we take away his food and water at around 7 o'clock so he won't have to go overnight? Sorry for all the questions!

FutureHavMom is offline  
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-07-2018, 02:09 PM
Senior Member
 
Henry&Kate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Northern New England
Posts: 410
Submit Photo: 1
Photo Submissions 21 Times in 21 Posts
an 8 week old puppy is likely to need to potty during the night. A 12 week old puppy is more likely to make it through the night. If your puppy is not close enough to let you know he needs to go out, you should provide him with an acceptable potty - litter, pads, whatever you've decided to use.

Henry was 10 weeks old when he came home. The first night we were both exhausted. It had been a long day. Even though he slept almost the whole 3 plus hour ride home, we both slept soundly for 9 (!) hours that first night. The next few weeks he would sleep through most nights until about 6 am but every 5th or 6th night he would want to go out in the middle of the night. I did try and feed him no later than 6 pm each night.

I think Karen has a strong view on grass patches. I'll leave that one to her.
krandall likes this.

Henry&Kate is offline  
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-07-2018, 03:21 PM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,610
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 298 Times in 296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureHavMom View Post
Thanks for this great info! It sounds like maybe our best bet is to start with him in the living room and then, in a few years, let him in the bedroom once he's grown and trained and can be trusted.

Here's another thing that's confusing. Can he be locked in his crate all night? Or do we have to get up around 2 am so he can pee? Or do we leave him in the expen so he can sleep in the crate but have access to the grass patch when he has to pee? Do we take away his food and water at around 7 o'clock so he won't have to go overnight? Sorry for all the questions!
He may need to potty during the night in the very beginning. Kodi only did a couple of times in the first week or two, Pixel didn't more than once, and Panda didn't at all... but she was a bit older when she came home.

Whether you lock them in, or give them access to a larger space, like an ex-pen, with a potty depends on a couple of things. Whether they will respect that space and stay IN it (some Havanese are climbers... none of mine were), whether the breeder has done enough work potty training them that they are TOTALLY reliable in finding the potty if left unsupervised in the larger, ex-pen area, and whether you can are willing to get up with them fairly early in the morning.

I hae RA, and my sleep is very important. I found getting up with Kodi a 6AM to be exhausting. So after just a couple of weeks, when we were SURE he would both respect the barrier, AND was totally reliable potting in his box, we just left his crate door open, and he had the run f the whole area. That meant that he was able to take care of potting by himself, and I was able to sleep until 7, then come down and feed him.

The girls were crated straight through, but they have always been better about sleeping in the morning. We did teach Kodi to eventually extend his "sleep time", and he will wait until 7 now to potty in the morning... but rarely a SECOND longer than that. He is ALWAYS the first one up in the morning.

It is MUCH better, for a number of different reasons, to feed puppies on a schedule (usually 3 meals initially, then most people drop down to twice a day later) Leaving food down all the time, and allowing dogs to "graze" leads to fat dogs and picky eaters... neither of which is a road you should want to travel. It also makes potty training more difficult.

OTOH, I am COMPLETELY against removing ANY animal's access to water for anything other than a medical reason. It goes against everything I've ever been taught about animal husbandry. Dehydration can cause a host of long-term health problems. I'd rather have to get up and let my small puppy pee during the night than take a chance on sending him to bed thirsty.

I would not "get up at 2AM" to let the puppy pee... If you won't be able to hear him from your bed room, set up a monitor if you need to. If you GET him up consistently, you will be "training" him to pee in the middle of the night. Of course you don't want to make him pee in his bedding, but the goal is for him to sleep through. So if he doesn't wake up, let him be. None of mine woke up consistently at night, even during the first week. Before week 3, none of them ever woke up during the night again unless they were stick or something.

Finally, as far as the "grass patch" is concerned, that would not be my choice for an indoor potty option. I've tried a lot of different things, and the problem with all the fake grass is there is NOTHING that really gets the smell out of them, no matter how often you wash them, or what products you use on them. I couldn't stand the smell in my house!!! By far, my favorite potty option is a litter box, with or without a grate over it. Second would be a disposable pee pad with a grate over it.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is offline  
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-07-2018, 03:25 PM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,610
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 298 Times in 296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry&Kate View Post
I think Karen has a strong view on grass patches. I'll leave that one to her.
Ha! I guess if you don't have a sensitive nose, it's as good as anything else. But I couldn't stand the stink. I know the Kings experimented with a number of different artificial turf products and all SORTS of cleaning products and they were not able to find an acceptable combination either. honestly, I can think of only one person on the forum who continued using them for any length of time (I don't know if they still do) but hey had it in the shower of a spare bathroom. So maybe they couldn't smell it from there, or maybe they just had a less sensitive nose than me. But for the short time I used it, I could smell it the moment I walked into the house. With litter, I NEVER smell our boxes at all.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is offline  
post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-07-2018, 03:31 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
FutureHavMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 82
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Nominations 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by krandall View Post
He may need to potty during the night in the very beginning. Kodi only did a couple of times in the first week or two, Pixel didn't more than once, and Panda didn't at all... but she was a bit older when she came home.

Whether you lock them in, or give them access to a larger space, like an ex-pen, with a potty depends on a couple of things. Whether they will respect that space and stay IN it (some Havanese are climbers... none of mine were), whether the breeder has done enough work potty training them that they are TOTALLY reliable in finding the potty if left unsupervised in the larger, ex-pen area, and whether you can are willing to get up with them fairly early in the morning.

I hae RA, and my sleep is very important. I found getting up with Kodi a 6AM to be exhausting. So after just a couple of weeks, when we were SURE he would both respect the barrier, AND was totally reliable potting in his box, we just left his crate door open, and he had the run f the whole area. That meant that he was able to take care of potting by himself, and I was able to sleep until 7, then come down and feed him.

The girls were crated straight through, but they have always been better about sleeping in the morning. We did teach Kodi to eventually extend his "sleep time", and he will wait until 7 now to potty in the morning... but rarely a SECOND longer than that. He is ALWAYS the first one up in the morning.

It is MUCH better, for a number of different reasons, to feed puppies on a schedule (usually 3 meals initially, then most people drop down to twice a day later) Leaving food down all the time, and allowing dogs to "graze" leads to fat dogs and picky eaters... neither of which is a road you should want to travel. It also makes potty training more difficult.

OTOH, I am COMPLETELY against removing ANY animal's access to water for anything other than a medical reason. It goes against everything I've ever been taught about animal husbandry. Dehydration can cause a host of long-term health problems. I'd rather have to get up and let my small puppy pee during the night than take a chance on sending him to bed thirsty.

I would not "get up at 2AM" to let the puppy pee... If you won't be able to hear him from your bed room, set up a monitor if you need to. If you GET him up consistently, you will be "training" him to pee in the middle of the night. Of course you don't want to make him pee in his bedding, but the goal is for him to sleep through. So if he doesn't wake up, let him be. None of mine woke up consistently at night, even during the first week. Before week 3, none of them ever woke up during the night again unless they were stick or something.

Finally, as far as the "grass patch" is concerned, that would not be my choice for an indoor potty option. I've tried a lot of different things, and the problem with all the fake grass is there is NOTHING that really gets the smell out of them, no matter how often you wash them, or what products you use on them. I couldn't stand the smell in my house!!! By far, my favorite potty option is a litter box, with or without a grate over it. Second would be a disposable pee pad with a grate over it.
THANK YOU for all of this wonderful info! I get up at 5:30 every morning, so getting up early won't be a huge issue in our house. We do plan to feed the puppy on a schedule three times a day but we really aren't sure about the water access. I would hate for him to go to bed thirsty, but I'd also hate for him to sleep in his own urine because he peed in his crate at night. I want so much to do right by this little guy, and it's so hard to know what "right" is sometimes.

Besides the potential for climbing/escaping, is there a disadvantage to leaving him in the ex-pen at night vs. locking him in his crate?

I should have been clearer about the grass. We aren't going to use fake grass. We are going to use real grass. We have a friend who has a Hav and lives in a hi-rise in NYC and she swears by her bi-weekly delivery of grass. This is the company she recommends: https://www.freshpatch.com What I like is that we won't have to re-train him to go on grass outside once he's had his shots. Hopefully, if we can train him to go on the grass inside, then it will be easier to train him to go on the grass outside. Of course, this is our first puppy, so I'm full of hope and idealistic expectations.

FutureHavMom is offline  
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-07-2018, 03:42 PM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,610
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 298 Times in 296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureHavMom View Post
THANK YOU for all of this wonderful info! I get up at 5:30 every morning, so getting up early won't be a huge issue in our house. We do plan to feed the puppy on a schedule three times a day but we really aren't sure about the water access. I would hate for him to go to bed thirsty, but I'd also hate for him to sleep in his own urine because he peed in his crate at night. I want so much to do right by this little guy, and it's so hard to know what "right" is sometimes.
Unless a dog comes from a puppy mill, where they have been FORCED to eliminate in their crate, most of them avoid it at all costs. They will raise a ruckus to get out before peeing in their bed. I wouldn't worry much about that, assuming he came from a good breeder. I never ONCE, with any of mine, from two different breeders, had to deal with cleaning pee out f a crate. Vomit a time or two, (and, BELIEVE ME, they let me know about it... they don't "sleep with it! LOL!) not pee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureHavMom View Post
Besides the potential for climbing/escaping, is there a disadvantage to leaving him in the ex-pen at night vs. locking him in his crate?
Not really, as long as they fully understand how/where/when to use the potty. This was a wonderful option for Kodi. We also used it for confinement when we had to leave during the day, for a LONG time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureHavMom View Post
I should have been clearer about the grass. We aren't going to use fake grass. We are going to use real grass. We have a friend who has a Hav and lives in a hi-rise in NYC and she swears by her bi-weekly delivery of grass. This is the company she recommends: https://www.freshpatch.com What I like is that we won't have to re-train him to go on grass outside once he's had his shots. Hopefully, if we can train him to go on the grass inside, then it will be easier to train him to go on the grass outside. Of course, this is our first puppy, so I'm full of hope and idealistic expectations.
Oh, OK. I've heard of a couple of people doing that, though it isn't common. As long as it's getting tossed regularly, I can't think of a problem with it (unless the puppy starts eating the grass and making himself sick, as some do with grass)

I don't think it will make ANY difference in terms of him learning to eliminate outdoors, however. All three of mine used "other" surfaces for indoor potting, and not one had the SLIGHTEST reluctance to pee and poop on grass as soon as weather was nice enough to go outdoors. THAT is something that dogs seem to understand instinctively. No "re-training" necessary. Just keep your eyes open, and be ready to offer LOTS of praise and treats when you see them "doing what comes naturally".


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome