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post #1 of 90 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 03:46 AM Thread Starter
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grain free

https://www.wfla.com/8-on-your-side/...ase/1314104476

What do you all think about the latest on this? I'm asking because I had been feeding Perry grain free for the last year - and recently switched to Fromm and some of that is grain free. I don't want to stop it if it's not that serious (do you think it would have happened by now if it were going to?) - though will consider with the next batch of getting the regular Fromm/ not the grain free, but if I decide not to feed him what I have right now that means a few months of either really low quality dog food (I mean really really low) or figuring out a home cooked diet - until we can get back to the US and get different food.

The irony is that I switched from wellness core (grainfree) because everyone kept saying that Fromm was better - but when I now look at the ingredients, Wellness core only has 1 of the potentially problematic ingredients (potatoes) and they're 7th in the list, while Fromm has 4 or 5 of the potentially problematic ingredients and their 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc in the list of ingredients.

On other food issues - I decided to switch him off chicken because so many people were talking about chicken allergies. He's still chewing on his feet a little too much, but getting rid of the chicken has improved the runny eyes. I know it was that because we were off it when we were in the US (and had added the new probiotic) and the eyes had cleared up a lot, when we came back I had a little of the chicken left, so I was mixing it with his new food - and the runny eyes came back, then just threw the rest away and am just using the new food, and the eyes have cleared up. They're still slightly damp, but no where near as bad.
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Last edited by Melissa Brill; 07-24-2018 at 03:50 AM.
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post #2 of 90 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Melissa Brill View Post
https://www.wfla.com/8-on-your-side/...ase/1314104476

What do you all think about the latest on this?
Melissa, the report on the federal site states that the breeds that are most affected are the large breeds, not common in small or medium sized breeds (except Cocker Spaniels). They also say, "it is not yet known how these ingredients are linked" to the disease. I totally agree that one needs to side on the safe side, just in case.

It is good to be aware of not too much starch for your pet. Read: https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.co...-about-starch/

I feed Orijen raw/dry food to my cat, and I am hoping to keep to that same brand for my puppy, if he likes it as much as my cat likes it. You can check out its analysis at: https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-f...-dog-food-usa/

Not sure if I answered your question, but hope it helps some.
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post #3 of 90 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 06:56 AM Thread Starter
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small breeds

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Melissa, the report on the federal site states that the breeds that are most affected are the large breeds, not common in small or medium sized breeds (except Cocker Spaniels). They also say, "it is not yet known how these ingredients are linked" to the disease. I totally agree that one needs to side on the safe side, just in case.

It is good to be aware of not too much starch for your pet. Read: https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.co...-about-starch/

I feed Orijen raw/dry food to my cat, and I am hoping to keep to that same brand for my puppy, if he likes it as much as my cat likes it. You can check out its analysis at: https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-f...-dog-food-usa/

Not sure if I answered your question, but hope it helps some.
They did say that it has in the past affected large breeds more, but that one of the reasons it's become a concern is because they were seeing it more in small breeds.

To be safe I think I will definitely be switching from Fromm in December (new food TBD)- but the question is whether it's enough of a risk that I should get rid of all the Fromm food I have right now and figure out another option.

For those of you who might not know, I live in Uganda, so I pick up Perry's food in the US twice a year when I'm there -other than home cooked there are no good food options that I can find here (and I won't switch permanently to home cooked because we travel too much and I need a kibble for that)... and we just came back with 5 bags of Fromm and 5 bags of Stella and Chewey freeze dried. He gets both because (1)I wasn't sure how many bags of freeze dried he needed for 6 months and (2)buying that much at once is really expensive. and (3)I'd like to keep him at least partially on a kibble because it easier to deal with in hotels, traveling, etc. He gets the freeze dried in the morning and the Fromm at night.
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post #4 of 90 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 07:39 AM
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we just came back with 5 bags of Fromm and 5 bags of Stella and Chewey freeze dried..
I am so glad you mentioned Stella and Chewy! I had heard that was really good, and I was going to check it out but forgot! I thought I could buy a small bag of that and incorporate it as part of my treats, to start with. So, thanks!

If I were you, I'd keep what you are doing - - you are providing your dog with the vitamins/minerals it needs through Stella and Chewy for now, if not necessarily through Fromm, and we don't know that for sure at this time. If you were only feeding Fromm, my advice would be different, but I think you're okay for now. When you come back to the states, we may know more and you can make a decision based on what we know at that time.

In just looking up Stella and Chewy right now, I read this regarding your concern. I personally thought it was a good advice. This is what the article recommended:

As of this moment… The FDA is just beginning its investigation. Results are not yet available.

It will take time and considerably more research to determine if there’s a definite link between grain-free dog foods and DCM. Until we know for sure… Be patient. Don’t overreact. And don’t be frightened by all the well-meaning yet misguided advice you’ll surely encounter on the Internet.

Base your feeding decisions on facts and science. Especially accurate label analysis.

Keep in mind… Many of the very best dog foods on the market are grain free… And they’re made by some of the most respected companies in the USA and Canada. We’re confident the industry will quickly adapt its recipes to any decisive conclusions reached by the FDA’s future findings.

Should that be necessary. Until then… Our very best advice… Stay Informed
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post #5 of 90 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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good advice

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Originally Posted by Jeanniek View Post
I am so glad you mentioned Stella and Chewy! I had heard that was really good, and I was going to check it out but forgot! I thought I could buy a small bag of that and incorporate it as part of my treats, to start with. So, thanks!

If I were you, I'd keep what you are doing - - you are providing your dog with the vitamins/minerals it needs through Stella and Chewy for now, if not necessarily through Fromm, and we don't know that for sure at this time. If you were only feeding Fromm, my advice would be different, but I think you're okay for now. When you come back to the states, we may know more and you can make a decision based on what we know at that time.

In just looking up Stella and Chewy right now, I read this regarding your concern. I personally thought it was a good advice. This is what the article recommended:

As of this moment… The FDA is just beginning its investigation. Results are not yet available.

It will take time and considerably more research to determine if there’s a definite link between grain-free dog foods and DCM. Until we know for sure… Be patient. Don’t overreact. And don’t be frightened by all the well-meaning yet misguided advice you’ll surely encounter on the Internet.

Base your feeding decisions on facts and science. Especially accurate label analysis.

Keep in mind… Many of the very best dog foods on the market are grain free… And they’re made by some of the most respected companies in the USA and Canada. We’re confident the industry will quickly adapt its recipes to any decisive conclusions reached by the FDA’s future findings.

Should that be necessary. Until then… Our very best advice… Stay Informed
Definitely good advice

I just started on the Stella and Chewy. We did have meal mixers previously - and I thought they smelled a little too meaty to me, but the "super beef patties" aren't nearly as strong smelling. And if Perry's reaction to them is any indication, they're super tasty from a dog's perspective. Now, in the morning, he is almost forcing me out the door to go to work because he wants his breakfast (I put his breakfast in his crate with him when I leave and my housekeeper lets him on when she gets there). I'm serious. From 6-6:30 he'll lounge on the bed while I get ready, then when we walk out of the bedroom he's dancing on his back legs trying desperately to sniff the food sitting on the counter in the dining room. Then I will watch TV for a bit, but by 6:45-6:50 he's up and moving back and forth from where I sit to the hall way (to the bedroom). I can hear him thinking "MOM, come on, IT'S TIME FOR BREAKFAST!!!!"
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post #6 of 90 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 01:14 PM
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I've been watching this and asked Sabine for her thoughts Here's her reply ....
"The jury is still out on just what exactly we are seeing pop up. It reminds me of a similar occurrence with lamb and rice based diets that demonstrated the need for taurine supplementation for the formulas.

If you want to supplement taurine, your best bet is to feed unprocessed taurine-rich fresh foods."

FDA Investigates Potential Connection to Diet and Heart Disease in Dogs ? Truth about Pet Food

Don't over react to this . I'm sure more will come out. Feed the best food you can it always pays dividends. I've supplimented taurine for years.
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post #7 of 90 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 01:28 PM
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The other detail missing from the FDA report is the quality of the food they were being fed. Grain free has become very popular and now the cheaper supermarket brands offer a grain free products. But high quality grain free dog foods are expensive because they contain more meat and meat products. The cheaper brands of dog food have always used corn and other starches to fill them out and I suspect when they went grain free they replaced the high levels of corn with high levels of peas and potatoes.

In higher quality grain free foods these ingredients are present but in much smaller quantities. So is it their presence or is it too much of them? We don't know.

Definitely something to stay aware of but I have to think that feeding a high quality food is your best bet against these until more information is available.

Henry really loves the Stella and Chewy's Duck Duck Goose variety.
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post #8 of 90 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 01:39 PM
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Just a related anecdote. My friend who brought her Golden Retriever over the other day gave Shama some homemade liver treats which she had baked with regular flour. I mentioned that Shama eats grain-free food, and she said that's been linked to heart disease . . .

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post #9 of 90 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 01:48 PM
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don't believe everything you hear . It's being investigated. Here's another example on bogus info . https://drjeandoddspethealthresource...l#.W1dl4tJKjIU

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post #10 of 90 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 02:07 PM
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I don't believe everything I hear. That's why I said it was an anecdote. Shama eats only the food her breeder told us she should eat (NOW Fresh Small Breed Adult Dog Food and Wellness soft). Her contract stated we had to consult her before changing her food. Of course I also give Shama a variety of training treats as well as boiled chicken for agility. We always read the ingredients on the training treat bags and try to make healthy choices. Thanks for all the information you share in the forum, Dave!

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