Chocolate pigmentation - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-10-2018, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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Chocolate pigmentation

This question is sort of irrelevant as Ollie is a pet, not a dog to show or breed. However, I am curious about chocolate pigmentation. He is eight weeks old and his little nose is almost all dark brown but a little lighter where it is surrounded by white hair. His eye rims look pretty dark as well, but his lips (also surrounded by white hair) seem lighter. His paw pads are all pink except for one dark spot (his feet are white). Will it take awhile for everything to fill in? Or is his pigment as dark as it's going to get?
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-10-2018, 08:56 PM
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I don’t know the answer to your specific question but this site is a goldmine of info on Havanese colour and genetics:

Colours of the Rainbow
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-11-2018, 01:23 PM
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Noses sometimes take a while to fill in fully, but if there is white hair there, it is possible that the little nose spot will stay pink. Same with his lips (and any eye rim spots) This is one of the things that makes breeding chocolates for SHOW difficult. It can be hard to get good, dark, solid pigment as required by the standard. So many breeders breed chocolates back to black for better pigment... then it’s hit or miss getting chocolate puppies at all! But you are absolutely right, it makes NO difference in a pet puppy. There are no health consequences at all. I have a freind who breeds some chocolates, and she has had to place more than one puppy as a pet, in spite of gorgeous conformation... because of incomplete or light pigment or eye color. The “pet people” get lucky with those puppies! 😊

Paw pads are a different thing. It is totally fine for paw pads, some or all, to be pink, no matter what color the puppy is. It’s pretty common on puppies that have white markings on their feet and/or legs.
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-11-2018, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Noses sometimes take a while to fill in fully, but if there is white hair there, it is possible that the little nose spot will stay pink. Same with his lips (and any eye rim spots) This is one of the things that makes breeding chocolates for SHOW difficult. It can be hard to get good, dark, solid pigment as required by the standard. So many breeders breed chocolates back to black for better pigment... then it’s hit or miss getting chocolate puppies at all! But you are absolutely right, it makes NO difference in a pet puppy. There are no health consequences at all. I have a freind who breeds some chocolates, and she has had to place more than one puppy as a pet, in spite of gorgeous conformation... because of incomplete or light pigment or eye color. The “pet people” get lucky with those puppies! 😊

Paw pads are a different thing. It is totally fine for paw pads, some or all, to be pink, no matter what color the puppy is. It’s pretty common on puppies that have white markings on their feet and/or legs.
Interesting info. His mom is black and dad is chocolate, but his dad is pretty silvered. Ollie and his brother both have fairly dark markings, but who knows how they will end up? Glad to hear it's not some sort of health issue though.
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-11-2018, 10:45 PM
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Interesting info. His mom is black and dad is chocolate, but his dad is pretty silvered. Ollie and his brother both have fairly dark markings, but who knows how they will end up? Glad to hear it's not some sort of health issue though.
Silver is one of the many modifying genes Havanese can carry. It is separate from the chocolate gene. The black mom has to be carrying the chocolate gene too, (even though she is black) or she wouldn’t be able to produce chocolate offspring.

A lot of Havanese colors fade (that’s different from silver) so it’s not uncommon for puppies to start out much darker than they end up. It’s not always the case... some do stay dark.


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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 12:27 AM
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We had a chocolate named Hershey and when we visited the litter there were 4 puppies two had white muzzles and 2 had chocolate muzzles. The two with white muzzles took longer to get their nose and lip pigmentation. They did come in chocolate eventually. Both of Hershey’s parents were chocolate the dad was really dark and the mum was dark, but not as dark as the dad. Hershey lightened, but still held a deep rich colour. He had light brown eyes. We now have a little tri colour black, white and grey. His mother is a chocolate with the silvering. Quincy definitely has the silvering. His face is no longer black and white it is silver/grey and he is blowing coat now and along his back he is lighter at the root line more greyish black than solid black like before. When he stands next to our Ollie, Oliver is a true black Quince is a softer dusty black. I think we will see a lot of change in Quince over time because of the silvering gene. His dad was a true black and white. ‘‘This is Hershey at a couple of weeks and you can see his little pink nose and this was him at about a year old and his nose is chocolate.
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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We had a chocolate named Hershey and when we visited the litter there were 4 puppies two had white muzzles and 2 had chocolate muzzles. The two with white muzzles took longer to get their nose and lip pigmentation. They did come in chocolate eventually. Both of Hershey’s parents were chocolate the dad was really dark and the mum was dark, but not as dark as the dad. Hershey lightened, but still held a deep rich colour. He had light brown eyes. We now have a little tri colour black, white and grey. His mother is a chocolate with the silvering. Quincy definitely has the silvering. His face is no longer black and white it is silver/grey and he is blowing coat now and along his back he is lighter at the root line more greyish black than solid black like before. When he stands next to our Ollie, Oliver is a true black Quince is a softer dusty black. I think we will see a lot of change in Quince over time because of the silvering gene. His dad was a true black and white. ‘‘This is Hershey at a couple of weeks and you can see his little pink nose and this was him at about a year old and his nose is chocolate.
Oh my. What a cutie pie!!! That's about how dark Ollie is and I hope he retains some of that, but I know he'll be gorgeous no matter how he turns out. It's amazing how their color can change.
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