Exactly. Herding and hunting dogs. It was really upsetting. I ended up losing 100 bucks to cancel it.
I have friends with retrievers who never use shock collars and I have LOTS of friends who herd and never use shock collars.
And anyone who won't put in the work to make sure their dog is reliable off-leash without using aversives just doesn't care enough. It has nothing to do with NEEDING to use aversives. You can hear the same nonsense about teaching dumbbell work for obedience. "You will never have a reliable retrieve if your dog hasn't learned there are "consequences" for dropping the dumbbell. So they teach the dumbbell using "ear pinches" and all kinds of other horrible tactics. My dogs have NEVER been taught ANYTHING for obedience except using praise, cookies and the clicker. Kodi has never ONCE dropped his dumbbell in competition, and although Panda hasn't yet reached the level of competition where dumbbell work is required, her dumbbell work in practice is already completely solid.
I took both of my dogs outside to work the other day because it was really mild. (for a change!) We were doing an exercise where I stand in one place, set them up beside me in sitting position (heel position) then I point to one of three cones about 25 feet away, and about 20 feet apart from each other, and tell them to "fly". Their job is to run out to the cone I point to, run around it, and return to me and sit in front of me. Kodi is old hat at this, but this is a fairly new exercise for Panda, and honestly, I wasn't COMPLETELY sure what to expect. We hadn't worked outside in a while, and even though it was mild, it was windy, and she was WILD!!! I did a little (off-leash) heeling with her first, to make sure I had her attention, then set her up. I sent her to "fly". She was SO funny! She took off like a rocket, and you could TELL that part of her wanted to keep running. Her tail was STRAIGHT in the air! Then she'd get to the cone, her head would flick back at me, she'd start to wag, round the cone and come flying back with a big grin on her face. OF COURSE, I rewarded her with TONS of yummy meatballs for being such a good girl!!!
But my point is, that it is building that kind of relationship, over a period of years, that gets you reliable off-leash behavior using reward-based training. You can bet that those collar-trained dogs don't do any better without their collars either. Dogs learn VERY quickly whether they have "the collar" on or not.