Any thoughts about this breeder - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-13-2020, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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Any thoughts about this breeder

So, guys I find a suspicious breeder but feel so uncertain about it.
Their web full of ads and looks like an online puppy mill. However they got a lot of good reviews on FB. It seems like they also welcome people to visit home, though they delivery puppy nationwide, they emphasize its a hand-deliver (take airplane with the puppy). Their price is also decent, around 1800 bucks.

The most confusing part is FB reviews. All the negative reviews were not from purchasers, and they've explained to every single one.

I don't know if they're home breeder or just BKB. What are your thoughts?

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https://www.facebook.com/pg/noahslit...ations_see_all

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Reputable AKC Havanese Puppy Breeders in Georgia | Noahs Little Ark
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 12:53 AM
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At the risk of being "jumped on" by some HF members, I know nothing about this breeder and cannot recommend for or against them. I just found it odd that they say one of their puppies was born on 4/13/20 and it's already on its way home to California today 5/13/20. Maybe they mean it has been sold to someone in California and it will be sent there at some later time. I'm sure there is a good explanation and one the experts on HF can answer that. Maybe you should just call the breeder and ask at what age are the puppies sent home.

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 06:05 AM
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One of the ways I learned to verify the integrity of the breeder was to search at the http://offa.org website to see whether the mom and dad of a potential puppy are listed as tested. I did not see any Havanese from Noah's Little Ark listed as having undergone any health tests. In fact, they don't make clear who the mom and the dad of each litter are. Another check is whether the breeder participates in the show circuit. It doesn't look like Noah's Little Ark is showing any of their dogs.

Compare the information on that website with these (these are in the Midwest, but I'm trying to show you the information that you should see on a reputable breeder's site):
Summerstone, Havanese & Golden Retrievers
Havanese Puppies Havanese Studs Havanese Breeders Minnesota Havanese Champion Puppies
Home

Do you see how they list all their male dogs and female dogs, identify the specific health tests that they perform, have pictures of show performances, and identify the specific parents of each litter? At first it's hard to notice that this information is missing from non-reputable breeders, but once you know what to look for it becomes easier. Also, you could practice looking on the offa.org website with one of the breeders that I list here so that you know what to look for.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 09:10 AM
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This is NOT a good breeder. They have a VERY bad reputation in the breed.


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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krandall View Post
This is NOT a good breeder. They have a VERY bad reputation in the breed.
What about all the good reviews they get? Doesn't that count for anything? Does every puppy need to come from show parentage? Maybe they don't need to post on offa if all their puppies are pre-sold. Do you personally know about this breeder? I got "jumped on" for simply saying a breeder "appeared" to be doing something and I was "skeptical" about a certain breeder. I intended to leave it open ended because I didn't know. I don't understand why I was flammed by some HF members. It seems like a double standard. This is the kind of thing that can tear a chat list apart. Obviously, I am having a difficult time letting this go. Karen, you and I are friends, please educate me. I don't understand the difference.

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krandall View Post
This is NOT a good breeder. They have a VERY bad reputation in the breed.
Just to clarify, is this statement in regard to Noah’s Little Ark or the breeders mentioned in the previous post? Thanks.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mudpuppymama View Post
Just to clarify, is this statement in regard to Noah’s Little Ark or the breeders mentioned in the previous post? Thanks.
@krandall was referring to Noah's Little Ark. The three that I listed ARE reputable breeders.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by KatieH View Post
@krandall was referring to Noah's Little Ark. The three that I listed ARE reputable breeders.
@KatieH , help us out here. How did you determine those three were reputable breeders? Thanks.

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricky Ricardo View Post
@KatieH , help us out here. How did you determine those three were reputable breeders? Thanks.

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That's a good question, because I don't provide all the evidence in my first post.

1. First, I looked at the list of members of local Havanese Clubs to find members who are breeders.

2. Next, I went to www.offa.org and using the Advanced Search feature, I found all the Havanese dogs listed there from a specific kennel. I matched up the names of the dogs there with the ones on the breeder's website. "Reputable" breeders usually list their dams and sires, including their AKC registered names.

3. Then I verified that the breeder participates in the show circuit. They post pictures and titles that their dogs have won.

4. Getting into the nitty-gritty, one can often see that the names of one breeder's dogs contains the name of another breeder. If I am confident in one of those breeders, it gives me more confidence that the other is also reputable because they are collaborating. Some Googling and reading will also show collaboration between breeders....maybe on their Facebook pages or in acknowledgements/thanks in a championship picture.

5. I actually created a spreadsheet with a list of breeders names and completed columns indicating whether they completed the proper health tests, participated in shows, whether they were willing to have visitors or ship their pups (generally considered a negative). In searching breeders' websites to complete the spreadsheet, I ended up finding evidence of collaboration between some.

6. Lastly, I checked specific breeders with others here on the forum, and I did some of that via PM.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricky Ricardo View Post
Maybe they don't need to post on offa if all their puppies are pre-sold.
OFA is not a place to list puppies, but rather a public database from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. That's where you go to verify a breeder is doing the appropriate health testing (because anybody can claim anything), and if a breeder isn't doing a lick of health testing, they are not a good breeder, plain and simple. It is one of the first places I look when doing research on a breeder because lack of health testing is the one thing that always, no matter what, eliminates a breeder from being one I would support
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