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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-29-2020, 03:38 PM
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Mudpuppymama, I am curious about what kind of crate you recommend, and what size it is. I like the idea of a crate on wheels. I am in the process of making a really long supply list on Amazon! Thanks!!
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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-29-2020, 04:16 PM
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Mia likes the wired crates vs. those plastic kind. Hers is currently 19x30 (not sure what brand). I actually did start Mia out in one of those plastic type of crates as a puppy that was much smaller but eventually moved to the 19x30 wired crate when she got older. The wired crate is more open and I think she feels more part of everything. I have it on sliders but you can put wheels on them. She has a mattress from Savvy Rest in there, a wool pillow and a blanket. She loves it.

Note that my dogs were potty trained from little on using crate training. I never used an ex pen at all. They were always highly rewarded for going into their crates and that is where we put them when we are gone. Note that my dogs are never left for longer than a few hours. They also never showed any signs of separation anxiety. I am not the potty training expert but using a crate my yorkie was trained in two weeks. Anyway I am not the person to listen to for potty advice!!! I should have trained mine to use a litter box and regret it. I am just trying to say I think it is good for a dog to be taught to love their crate and to have a special place for them to sleep and feel safe. I also do not use any flea or tick preventatives. By limiting where they sleep and keeping that area clean, you do not have to worry about a flea infestation and can skip the chemicals. The more places they sleep, the more work you have on your hands.
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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 08:13 AM
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In case anyone is interested, I managed to get my two jumpers to be NON jumpers and I never confined them in a crate. First of all, they need to have a place they absolutely LOVE that is near to where the “action is”. For us, that is in the family room/kitchen area. They both have super comfy dog mattresses and blankets in a crate. The crate is on sliders and can be moved around to be closer to us if necessary. Both my dogs are free to go in and out of their crates and have been trained since little on to love their crate. Dogs are creatures of habit. So if they are used to hanging out on the sofa, that is where they are going to be. To keep them off and break the habit, all I did was keep the sofa cushions turned up at an angle so they cannot sit on it. When somebody wants to sit on the sofa they just put the cushion down. They got used to their only sleeping place being their crate. After awhile, they never even tried to go on the sofa. This may not work for all dogs but worked for me. My dogs are not suffering. They love their crates and are free to go in or out of them. And they are always near us which seems to be all they care about.
Some dogs don't run and jump a lot. I've never had a dog that likes to run and jump like this Havanese. It's their natural instinct. Patti isn't into laying or sitting on furniture but she does occasionally jumped up and down from a chair, ottoman, couch, an empty end table or perch on a low window ledge. That isn't likely going to hurt any dog. Havanese are more like cats when it comes to agility and getting onto things...IMO.

Patti's preferred position is feet on the floor, except if I'm napping on the bed then she likes to join me for a noon time nap. Otherwise, the closet floor, under the clothes is her preferred sleeping area. We've spoiled Patti and would probably let her on the furniture but she's not interested.

Training a dog to stay off furniture is another issue. I had a poodle named Ashley who loved sleeping and sitting on the top edge, on the back of the couch. She was bathed weekly but the oil from her skin was dirting that area. I didn't want her up there and she knew that was a No! No! Ashley was good about staying off the couch ... while someone was home. When we left she was back up there and I would hear her jumping off when we came home and walked in the door. Dogs are so! smart. Can't help but love 'em.

I have a utility room with a doggie door where I left dogs if I was going to be gone for the day ... but for quick trips they were left in the house. Patti is confined in the house when we leave for the day since she is indoor-potty trained. Otherwise, she has access to the doggie door when we are home.

I love! Doggie Doors ... have always had one. My mother always had one for dogs. Before we had fencing I had one for decades and never had a problem on 11-acres of any thing but my dogs entering and going outside. To each their own ... Love 'em or Hate 'em or Scared of 'em. I'm in the Love category.
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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 08:38 AM
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Some dogs don't run and jump a lot. I've never had a dog that likes to run and jump like this Havanese. It's their natural instinct. Patti isn't into laying or sitting on furniture but she does occasionally jumped up and down from a chair, ottoman, couch, an empty end table or perch on a low window ledge. That isn't likely going to hurt any dog. Havanese are more like cats when it comes to agility and getting onto things...IMO.

Patti's preferred position is feet on the floor, except if I'm napping on the bed then she likes to join me for a noon time nap. Otherwise, the closet floor, under the clothes is her preferred sleeping area. We've spoiled Patti and would probably let her on the furniture but she's not interested.

Training a dog to stay off furniture is another issue. I had a poodle named Ashley who loved sleeping and sitting on the top edge, on the back of the couch. She was bathed weekly but the oil from her skin was dirting that area. I didn't want her up there and she knew that was a No! No! Ashley was good about staying off the couch ... while someone was home. When we left she was back up there and I would hear her jumping off when we came home and walked in the door. Dogs are so! smart. Can't help but love 'em.

I have a utility room with a doggie door where I left dogs if I was going to be gone for the day ... but for quick trips they were left in the house. Patti is confined in the house when we leave for the day since she is indoor-potty trained. Otherwise, she has access to the doggie door when we are home.

I love! Doggie Doors ... have always had one. My mother always had one for dogs. Before we had fencing I had one for decades and never had a problem on 11-acres of any thing but my dogs entering and going outside. To each their own ... Love 'em or Hate 'em or Scared of 'em. I'm in the Love category.
Every dog is different and every household setup is different and everyone has their opinion on what jumping from a high place does to dog joints over time. If Mia did not hurt herself at age seven she would probably still be jumping on and off furniture. She is suspected to have IVDD and to avoid another disc episode she must not jump from high places. So her situation is unique. Most dogs probably never have an issue. However, I was involved with Dodgerlist.com for quite awhile and saw lots of heartache and suffering from people with IVDD dogs of all breeds that repeatedly had disc episodes and almost all these dogs continued to jump from high places. I was determined this would not happen to Mia and she has never jumped off anything since then and has never had another issue. Note that some older dogs do get IVDD and it does not typically show up until they are at least seven years old. If I ever get another dog, I would consider training them from little on to use furniture ramps if keeping them off the furniture is too difficult. I guess I am in the better safe than sorry camp as far as jumping from high places. Note I am not talking about jumping as is done in agility...this is totally different. Jumping down from a high place puts a tremendous amount of force on the front joints and spine.
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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 09:00 AM
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Every dog is different and every household setup is different and everyone has their opinion on what jumping from a high place does to dog joints over time. If Mia did not hurt herself at age seven she would probably still be jumping on and off furniture. She is suspected to have IVDD and to avoid another disc episode she must not jump from high places. So her situation is unique. Most dogs probably never have an issue. However, I was involved with Dodgerlist.com for quite awhile and saw lots of heartache and suffering from people with IVDD dogs of all breeds that repeatedly had disc episodes and almost all these dogs continued to jump from high places. I was determined this would not happen to Mia and she has never jumped off anything since then and has never had another issue. Note that some older dogs do get IVDD and it does not typically show up until they are at least seven years old. If I ever get another dog, I would consider training them from little on to use furniture ramps if keeping them off the furniture is too difficult. I guess I am in the better safe than sorry camp as far as jumping from high places. Note I am not talking about jumping as is done in agility...this is totally different. Jumping down from a high place puts a tremendous amount of force on the front joints and spine.
I think the problem is that so many Havanese jump for the SAKE of jumping, not simply for the sake of getting on and off furniture. My dogs don't sleep on the furniture really. They much prefer their donut beds on the floor. But if the furniture isn't gated off, it becomes part of their "motocross raceway" up and over, around and through as they chase each other around the house. THAT is why it all needs to be gated off now, because of Kodi's injury. The girls still do it in the evening, but then we have him on leash, attached to us, to keep him from joining in, poor dear.

...And as for the ramp? I BOUGHT stairs for our high bed and spent a HUGE amount of time teaching Kodi to use them quite a long time ago, just because he was getting older, not because he was hurt. THAT was a total failure. He was very good about using them going UP... And then when he wanted to get down, he would jump OVER the stairs. Which made it a MUCH bigger, LONGER, more DANGEROUS leap, halfway across the room. NOT safer. So I gave my expensive stairs away after my extensive training before my dog did himself SERIOUS damage! (and in general, I'm pretty good at dog training, and HE is pretty good at BEING trained! LOL!)
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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 09:19 AM
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I think the problem is that so many Havanese jump for the SAKE of jumping, not simply for the sake of getting on and off furniture. My dogs don't sleep on the furniture really. They much prefer their donut beds on the floor. But if the furniture isn't gated off, it becomes part of their "motocross raceway" up and over, around and through as they chase each other around the house. THAT is why it all needs to be gated off now, because of Kodi's injury. The girls still do it in the evening, but then we have him on leash, attached to us, to keep him from joining in, poor dear.

...And as for the ramp? I BOUGHT stairs for our high bed and spent a HUGE amount of time teaching Kodi to use them quite a long time ago, just because he was getting older, not because he was hurt. THAT was a total failure. He was very good about using them going UP... And then when he wanted to get down, he would jump OVER the stairs. Which made it a MUCH bigger, LONGER, more DANGEROUS leap, halfway across the room. NOT safer. So I gave my expensive stairs away after my extensive training before my dog did himself SERIOUS damage! (and in general, I'm pretty good at dog training, and HE is pretty good at BEING trained! LOL!)
Great points Karen. As far as ramp training, I guess it is one of those things that sounds good on paper. I had my doubts about it because I envision my dogs flying over it when the door bell rings! With your training skills and Kodi’s ability to be trained, if this did not work for you the chances of it working for anyone else is pretty slim! I and the dogs are happy with our current no jumping setup. And Mia has been doing very well for many years. Neither of my dogs show any signs of arthritis either. Anyway, everyone needs to do what they think is best but for me it means no jumping off furniture!
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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 12:14 PM
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Great points Karen. As far as ramp training, I guess it is one of those things that sounds good on paper. I had my doubts about it because I envision my dogs flying over it when the door bell rings! With your training skills and Kodi’s ability to be trained, if this did not work for you the chances of it working for anyone else is pretty slim! I and the dogs are happy with our current no jumping setup. And Mia has been doing very well for many years. Neither of my dogs show any signs of arthritis either. Anyway, everyone needs to do what they think is best but for me it means no jumping off furniture!

I think there would be a possibility that a ramp off the bed MIGHT work RIGHT NOW, because he is sore right now The vet and I are using his willingness to go down the few steps from our deck to the back yard as an indicator of how he's feeling. (he is not allowed to do long stairs) If he's sore, he will not go down those stairs, but will wait at the top and ask to be carried down. If you don't carry him down, he will turn back and use the litter box in the kitchen rather than go down into the yard.

But he's never on the bed without us, so we're always there to lift him down. And as you mentioned... doorbells. I have NO faith that in the excitement of a doorbell, he wouldn't forget about pain until he hit the floor and it was too late. So the leash is the only thing I trust on the bed. And physical restraint AWAY from the couches without supervision. The only reason he ever really wants to be in the family room is to sit cuddled against me when we're watching TV, so it's really fine with both of us.
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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 01:05 PM
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I think there would be a possibility that a ramp off the bed MIGHT work RIGHT NOW, because he is sore right now The vet and I are using his willingness to go down the few steps from our deck to the back yard as an indicator of how he's feeling. (he is not allowed to do long stairs) If he's sore, he will not go down those stairs, but will wait at the top and ask to be carried down. If you don't carry him down, he will turn back and use the litter box in the kitchen rather than go down into the yard.

But he's never on the bed without us, so we're always there to lift him down. And as you mentioned... doorbells. I have NO faith that in the excitement of a doorbell, he wouldn't forget about pain until he hit the floor and it was too late. So the leash is the only thing I trust on the bed. And physical restraint AWAY from the couches without supervision. The only reason he ever really wants to be in the family room is to sit cuddled against me when we're watching TV, so it's really fine with both of us.
Kodi is in great hands. You definitely “know your dog” and are on top of what he needs to recover (which I hope is soon).
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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 05:27 PM
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A bit off the topic, but as far as comfortable/inviting crates, does anyone have more than one in their home--say on a different level if their home?
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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 05:33 PM
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A bit off the topic, but as far as comfortable/inviting crates, does anyone have more than one in their home--say on a different level if their home?
I have a two story house. We have crates in our bedroom on the second floor where they sleep at night. They also have crates in our main living area downstairs where they hang out the rest of the time.
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