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Looong post-grooming help pretty please

3K views 20 replies 7 participants last post by  krandall 
#1 ·
Hello Havanese land! I just introduce myself and now I’m pleading for feedback.
I have a couple questions about grooming. We have 3 Havanese and I do my own grooming. I recently retired early (I’m 60) so have left the youngest, 18 months, in her long coat. The other 2 boys have puppy cuts. I have always enjoyed brushing Jodie each day. I do her feet and tail first. Then I divide her hair vertically in 4 clumps (pinned with alligator clips) and then horizontally comb/brush 4 separate layers for a total of 32 sections. Her head and neck come last. Recently though I’ve suddenly had issues with matting. She started blowing her coat 6 months ago so I’m pretty good with catching those little tangles. Her last 2 baths have been awful though. It doesn’t matter what I use or what combination I try. I’ve been practicing on her paws the last 2 weeks. In general her hair is in good condition. She is definitely the hairiest fluffiest Havanese I’ve ever seen-except maybe Bono😋 Jodie does not need volumizing anything.
Grooming things I’ve tried are:
Redken All Soft (still like it)
Pantene products-strong smell for me but works well
Chris Christensen Spectrum 10
Chris Christensen Shine for Sure-left rust colored blotches on my hand
Chris Christensen Spectrum 10 hyper pac- no affect, sent it back
Laser lights stripping shampoo
Several other Laser Lite products-donated
Nature’s Specialties-sent it back
Several more I still can’t remember
My conclusion: Pantene, Spectrum 10 & Redken shampoos are fine but conditioners themselves don’t do a lot after being rinsed out. I use a very small amount of All Soft conditioner in my water mister. Any more than that leaves her hair with a film on it.

Grooming utensils I’ve tried:
Wahl cordless clippers-love it
Mini-arco trimmer for pads, eyes and sanitary trims-love it
Chris Christensen butter comb-$50.00?!
Andis buttercomb $10.00-love it, sent the other one back
Chris Christensen curved slicker brush-I actually like that one and the pins are soft
Matting rakes-didn’t work for me with the tight mats against the skin
Mat splitter (looks like a mini cythe)-works but very sharp
TIJERAS 7 Inch Dog Grooming Scissor-excellent and worth $27.00
ShearsDirect Professional 46 Teeth Blender, 6.5-Inch-it works but could be weighed better
Zen Clipper Pet Nail Clippers-definitely not
Miller’s forge stainless steel nail clippers-yes! $5.00 & has a clean sharp cut with minimal pressure on doggy’s nerves
Mars Professional Grooming Brush for Dogs and Cats-meh, pins are tipless though
Bass bamboo pin brush-pins break easily
Chris Christensen Ice Slip Dematting Brush-20 mm-$37.00 this actually works well, thick pins well spaced
Chris Christensen Chris Christensen Breezy Large Oblong Brush 16mm-too whimpy
SPA by TropiClean Tear Stain Remover for Pets-Stung my eye for 20 minutes-not using on my babies!
Earthbath Puppy Shampoo-didn’t sting my own eye so I use 1:1 dilution for dogs faces
Resco Professional Comb for Pets-it’s okay but $30.00 is far too much
LIVINGO Premium Manicure Scissors curved blade $10.00-excellent quality
...and my favorite grooming tool is my magnivision headband-especially for cleaning ears!

I also have a grooming table, hair dryer clamp and pet dryer. We always towel dry Jodie by squeezing her hair with a towel in a downward motion. I also dry her hair downward and layered in a similar fashion to line brushing. However, her hair still has mats next to the skin. It doesn’t matter what products I use or how thoroughly Jodie is rinsed. The Mat Zapper helps but I cringe at the noise it makes tearing the wet mats away from her skin. So, if you’ve actually read this far-thank you! My main question is what am I doing wrong, or missing, with the mat issue? How often do I need to use a stripping shampoo? My other question is: is there any way to moisturize her top layer of hair that is frizzy and feels a little rough? I ordered Ice oc Ice ready to use conditioner with sunscreen from Amazon and received milky colored water. It doesn’t resemble the bottle my sister-in-law ordered from Cherrybrook.
Thank you! JaJa

This is what Jodie’s hair looks like under the top frizzy, rough hair
 

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#2 ·
If she has mats against her skin, you have a real problem. Even the FULLEST coated Havanese should NOT have mats against the skin. You should be able (after they are groomed) to get a comb COMPLETELY though their coat, right down to the skin. If not, you've got a problem.

Are you showing her or intending to show her? Are you involved with a local Havanese group? I think you need to find someone local who knows how to deal with show coats (NOT a commercial pet groomer... they will just want to shave it all off!) who can help you figure out how to really get down to her skin and get rid of that matting. THEN what are the best products to use for her particular coat type.

The problem with ANYONE here trying to give you advice is that without FEELING her coat, there really isn't any way to give you really good advice. Especially with what you are describing, and assuming you want to save her coat. (and it looks beautiful!) The gal who helped finish Panda for me was a MASTER at turning out Havanese. I was amazed when I would drop Panda, with her very light coat off with her in the morning. She would have this line of Havanese there ranging from Panda, with her light, silky coat to some that looked like woolly mammoths, and others that looked like brillo pads. By ring time, she had them ALL looking like proper "show Havanese". Different products for different coats. CLEARLY what she had me use on Panda would NOT be the right products for you to use on your Jodie! LOL!

I CAN tell you that I would work VERY hard, in VERY small sections, with comb or small slicker to get that undercoat out of those mats against her skin. You've got to get rid of that. I prefer a comb for that (not an issue much with Panda, but Kodi can get that kind of matting) but I know other people prefer a slicker. You can either SOAK each section with conditioner as you work on it (I use Ice on Ice) or go the other way, keep it really dry and use corn starch. I find that I get less breakage on a long coat keeping it really wet.
 
#11 ·
Are you showing her or intending to show her? Are you involved with a local Havanese group? I think you need to find someone local who knows how to deal with show coats (NOT a commercial pet groomer... they will just want to shave it all off!) who can help you figure out how to really get down to her skin and get rid of that matting. THEN what are the best products to use for her particular coat type.
The gal who helped finish Panda for me was a MASTER at turning out Havanese. I was amazed when I would drop Panda, with her very light coat off with her in the morning. She would have this line of Havanese there ranging from Panda, with her light, silky coat to some that looked like woolly mammoths, and others that looked like brillo pads. By ring time, she had them ALL looking like proper "show Havanese". Different products for different coats. CLEARLY what she had me use on Panda would NOT be the right products for you to use on your Jodie! LOL!
Did you find this person through your experience showing? How would you go about finding someone like this for a consultation if someone wasn't showing? She sounds like a dream!

I also imagine someone with this kind of expertise might not groom outside of shows but maybe would be able to make local referrals to groomers who know Havanese! I have found I really can't do ALL the grooming myself. I need someone to help clean him up every few months so I have a good line to follow. I really can't figure out how to get the right shape and blend from the neck down into the leg to trim!
 
#3 ·
Jodie doesn’t have mats currently. Combing and brushing 44 sections daily keeps them at bay. I’m not preparing her for show, just therapy in the future. Although I do love the way her hair swishes when she trots around. Yes, a commercial groomer will shave them regardless of instructions which is why I do it myself. I have 3 Havanese and each of them have different coat types and densities so my method with them is different than my process for grooming Jodie.
Also, where did you purchase your Ice on Ice? I returned mine to Amazon as it was either fake or watered down. The texture was nothing like the bottle my sister-in-law purchased from Cherrybrook.
 
#9 ·
Jodie doesn't have mats currently. Combing and brushing 44 sections daily keeps them at bay. I'm not preparing her for show, just therapy in the future. Although I do love the way her hair swishes when she trots around. Yes, a commercial groomer will shave them regardless of instructions which is why I do it myself. I have 3 Havanese and each of them have different coat types and densities so my method with them is different than my process for grooming Jodie.
Also, where did you purchase your Ice on Ice? I returned mine to Amazon as it was either fake or watered down. The texture was nothing like the bottle my sister-in-law purchased from Cherrybrook.
Cherrybrook. And yes, you are right. Every.single.one has a different coat! :)
 
#6 ·
I'm sorry - I didn't read your long post - I just skimmed this thread - can we please see more photos of your dogs? I brush and comb Shama frequently but otherwise take her to the groomer every five weeks in the winter and every four weeks in the summer. Welcome to the forum!
 
#13 ·
Pictures

I have my photos back after switching to my new phone. Here we go Shamamama😋
The first photo is JoJo and Cotton. JoJo has hair that is twice the density of Cotton's and JoJo's hair grows about twice as fast. He has gentle curls in his hair but Cotton's curls (cut short) are tight like a poodle. Cotton's wispy type hair is most obvious in this pic. The 2nd photo shows how straight Jodie's hair is even compared to Cotton. The next picture is a comparison of our Happy Hopping Havanese Herd together. Jodie's color has changed quickly over the last year! The porcupine on the top of the couch is our "discrete" princess in her favorite sleep position😆 The final picture is Jodie after I brushed her this afternoon. I've just started to trim her face, very slowly, so I don't take too much off. After several more days I'll have a bit of scissor work to complete. So, that's our version of Havanese Heaven!
 

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#18 ·
EvaE1izabeth, my sister-in-law has the concentrate and dilutes it quite a bit but doesn’t know how much. I ordered the Ready to use Ice on Ice leave in conditioner with sunscreen from Cherrybrook a few days ago so I can compare it to the same thing I ordered on Amazon. I like Cherrybrook but they do charge shipping however, some of their products are priced lower than Amazon which makes up the difference. Krandall is right, some of the Chris Christensen products are sold by Amazon. Many of the products on the Chris Christensen website are sold via Cherrybrook. Also, if you want ingredients of Chris Christensen products you can contact them on chrissystems.com I’ve always gotten a replay the same day if I send a message in the morning. I haven’t tried Ice on Ice Ultra so I’ll keep that in mind, thank for the detailed description!
 
#19 ·
EvaE1izabeth, my sister-in-law has the concentrate and dilutes it quite a bit but doesn't know how much. I ordered the Ready to use Ice on Ice leave in conditioner with sunscreen from Cherrybrook a few days ago so I can compare it to the same thing I ordered on Amazon. I like Cherrybrook but they do charge shipping however, some of their products are priced lower than Amazon which makes up the difference. Krandall is right, some of the Chris Christensen products are sold by Amazon. Many of the products on the Chris Christensen website are sold via Cherrybrook. Also, if you want ingredients of Chris Christensen products you can contact them on chrissystems.com I've always gotten a replay the same day if I send a message in the morning. I haven't tried Ice on Ice Ultra so I'll keep that in mind, thank for the detailed description!
The dilution formula for Ice on Ice is 9 parts water to one part concentrate.
 
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