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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-20-2011, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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trainablity?

I'm currently dog-sitting a friend of mine's mut (he's part australian shepard), medium size dog. He's really well behaved and attentative. But java on the other hand- and i know hes still young but- doesnt at all listen as well. he's really territorial over his stuff and barks a lot, jumps all over this dog and nips at him even when he doesnt get a response back. i was reading that havanese have 5/10 rating for trainablity. Are they usually pretty independent fully grown?
I was hoping to have a well behaved pup....
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-20-2011, 01:16 PM
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Hi Java's mom,
You are comparing a Hav puppy to a part Australian Shepherd, which is a very intelligent breed.
Java is just being a puppy!

Havanese are quite trainable as you have seen on here, with Karen and others.. It takes consistency , work and commitment.
My 3 are therapy dogs, which means they had to pass a test and behave in certain ways. I worked hard with the first 2 and not so much with the 3rd, who I got as an older dog. They are all well-behaved in general, although they still bark a lot at the door and on the leash in the neighborhood. (More training needed).
I think that only one of them is really smart, one average, and one not quite so smart (but a love!)
But they are all well-behaved adults.
You can do it too with Java!

Nan
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-20-2011, 02:01 PM
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Java's most likely just being a puppy! it's impossible to compare a small breed puppy with a medium mixed adult!

Tammy and Tillie
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-20-2011, 02:06 PM
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Bunk , all dogs are trainable. http://books.google.ca/books?id=groW...%20fly&f=false

Read page 13 of Jane Killion's When Pigs Fly ----- Second best dog book I've ever read.

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-20-2011, 02:43 PM
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If this is 5/10 on the trainability scale, I haven't met the other dogs yet, and I've met a LOT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfLWw...ature=youtu.be

I agree with everything else that anyone has said in this thread too.

Last edited by Tom King; 11-20-2011 at 02:46 PM.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-20-2011, 03:38 PM
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I had a 'not-so-smart' border collie. Good grief, he was dumb. Lovable, excitable, and anxious to please but not the smartest biscuit in the milkbone box.

If border collies are the most intelligent dogs, then all other dogs must have the brain capacity of a single-celled amoeba.

Comparing our most recent doggies, Nessie (the Aussie) is scary-smart. Jack would be just above average. My old b.c. was just happy to be on the short bus.

With the right motivation, Jack is just as easy to train as Nessie was.

TTFN,
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-20-2011, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by java View Post
I'm currently dog-sitting a friend of mine's mut (he's part australian shepard), medium size dog. He's really well behaved and attentative. But java on the other hand- and i know hes still young but- doesnt at all listen as well. he's really territorial over his stuff and barks a lot, jumps all over this dog and nips at him even when he doesnt get a response back. i was reading that havanese have 5/10 rating for trainablity. Are they usually pretty independent fully grown?
I was hoping to have a well behaved pup....
I don't know where the number came from, but if Havanese were REALLY so far down the trainability scale, they wouldn't have been so popular as circus dogs in Europe.

No dog is BORN "well behaved". Just like children, they need to be taught... Part of Java's problem is that he's still a puppy, and just like with children, he just needs to grow up. His behavior with this other dog is just a sign that the other dog needs to put him in his place. If the other dog gets tired of it, eh will. This social behavior has nothing to do with "trainability". It has to do with social opportunities and learning proper DOG social skills from other DOGS. Your job is to provide those opportunities for him, so having this other well-behaved older dog with you is great exposure for Java. You stay out of it (assuming no one is getting hurt) and let the other dog do the training.

The rest is consistent training, no matter what the dog. If Java doesn't "listen well", you need to work more on teaching him to listen better. Some people are able to do this very naturally... most need to work with a trainer to learn to NOTICE when things are heading in the wrong direction before it gets too far. Most of us (at least in the beginning) wait WAY too long before bringing our puppy's attention back to us.

When you ask if they are usually pretty independent when they are full grown, I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean are they trustworthy, I'd say yes. If you are asking whether they enjoy time away from their owners, I think the answer for MOST is that they are very much companion dogs, and would rather be by your side. (there will be exceptions to every rule, though!)

At our training center, we have dogs of all breeds and mixed breeds. Of the young dogs that started around the same time Kodi did, none have progressed significantly faster than he has (including the Aussies and BC's) and many significantly slower. He is typically competing against dogs at least twice his age.

And it's not just formal competition type obedience... he walks nicely on leash but is totally reliable off leash in the woods. He has a reliable recall, so I can safely have him outdoors with me off-leash on our large property. (I still wouldn't do this if we were near a road... it only takes one, momentary, mistake!!!) In the house, he does what we ask, when we ask, will have his wild play periods, but then settles down to snuggle on the couch most of the evening. He barks when someone is at the door, but stops they minute we tell him it's OK. If I had one thing I'd change... I'd love to be able to use the bathroom without company! (but honestly, if it bothered me that much, I'd train that too!)

And I really don't think Kodi is exceptionally smart for a Havanese. As far as the formal obedience and agility things he knows, that has been hard work on both our parts. But as far as his "house and street manners", he's not significantly different than any of the NUMBER of Havs I've met through our local groups. In fact, the couple that have a more difficult temperament stand out in my mind. And they are rescues that probably had a very bad start in life. Quite honestly, I've never met a more uniformly charming, easy to get along with breed. ... But puppies will be puppies!


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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-20-2011, 04:55 PM
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I've not done any formal obedience with Tucker, and he's get wonderful house/car/walking manners.

It took time, effort, and real diligence to raise up my children to have manners--and it's taken determination to raise up Tucker this way, too.

Sheri, Tucker's Mom
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-20-2011, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sheri View Post
I've not done any formal obedience with Tucker, and he's get wonderful house/car/walking manners.

It took time, effort, and real diligence to raise up my children to have manners--and it's taken determination to raise up Tucker this way, too.
Yes, that was the point I was trying to make. People can have obnoxious kids or obnoxious dogs (often if they have one, they have the other!) It takes work to raise kids AND puppies!


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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-20-2011, 06:47 PM
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I had to jump in here to agree with Karen and Sherri. We had a Maltese for 11 years that was completely untrained and I'll readily admit it was all our fault. In contrast, we've spent countless hours in class and out training Cappy (our Hav) and at 9 months old, it shows. It's true that Cappy has a much happier, social personality but I'm pretty sure that's because of the time we spend socializing him with other dogs, cats, people and places. I brag that he's a superstar because he can stay alone by himself in the house without incident, he doesn't bark, he doesn't jump on people, and he loves everyone and everything - and people who've spent the same amount of time working with their dogs just look at me like I'm crazy
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