Aggression towards big dogs? - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
miller123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 367
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thumbs down Aggression towards big dogs?

today I took miller to the dog park and a HUGE lab came up, he was super friendly but miller turned aggressive? has anybody else had this problam and how did you stop it, also he is with my friends lab all the time and he isn't scared or aggressive. Also i did not want the other dog to become aggressive back or to bite him, because one bite from that dog and miller would be in his stomach, so i picked him up, when i picked him up, he bit me, is this normal and is it ok to pick him up?

~Thanks
miller123 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 08:53 PM
Dave T
 
davetgabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 10,772
Submit Photo: 3
Photo Submissions 112 Times in 110 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by miller123 View Post
today I took miller to the dog park and a HUGE lab came up, he was super friendly but miller turned aggressive? has anybody else had this problam and how did you stop it, also he is with my friends lab all the time and he isn't scared or aggressive. Also i did not want the other dog to become aggressive back or to bite him, because one bite from that dog and miller would be in his stomach, so i picked him up, when i picked him up, he bit me, is this normal and is it ok to pick him up?

~Thanks
I try not to judge what's going on when it comes to aggresive type issues. But I would almost bet it's fear related. I always recommend a professional to help you if possible. Very common. If you decide to try that route, I would be willing to help search for a good trainer for you. Email me privately if you wish. What happened to you is called redirected aggression, don't take it personal. He was simply afraid.

Dave and Molly
Ian Dunbar was awarded the Outstanding Achievement Award from I.P.D.T.A. Here's a picture of me accepting the award on his behalf.
Member of IAABC ,International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants , Member of Pet Professional Guild

Last edited by davetgabby; 03-03-2012 at 08:58 PM.
davetgabby is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 09:31 PM
Senior Member
 
TilliesMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,278
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 36 Times in 36 Posts
awwwww, poor little guy!!
Tillie has been bum-rushed too many times by agressive big dogs and has a very similar problem. Although she has never bit me or anyone. BUT she does bare her teeth and CRY horribly. I worked with a trainer and she taught me to give her small treats when a big dog is near to kind of re-direct her. I use TONS of positive words and a super high encouraging voice and over time (months) she has been getting noticably better.
I think time and paitence and making sure he ONLY interacts with NICE big dogs is helpful. Tillie has developed her own way of 'dealing' with big dogs, just today we were at Pet Smart and there were several interactions that I was VERY proud of her. She was a little nervous but didn't bark and when the big dog walked away Tillie sniffed and followed with her tail wagging... I have hope that SOMEDAY she won't bark at big dogs... well at least at NICE big dogs.

Tammy and Tillie
TilliesMom is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 10:48 PM
Senior Member
 
The Laughing Magpie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,335
Submit Photo: 4
Photo Submissions 13 Times in 13 Posts
I have posted many times about my Yogi, he is a reactive dog, at first I thought he was dog aggressive, I got professional help and found out he is reactive, it is now over two years that I have been working with him, he still on occasion will bark/growl at another dog but he usually will self correct and look at me maintaining eye contact awaiting my instruction (set, heal,etc.). A dog who is reactive is often fearful and has gotten into the habit of scaring the other dog away, so they think, and the behavior is reinforced. It has been a very long road for us.

Yogi was a rescue, he was about 6 months old, it took me awhile to notice his problem as I was dealing with socializing him with people (that has been a big success) and he got along with my other dogs from day one, I mean he fit in seemlessly, I just did not notice until my dominant older male passed away, all of a sudden it was as if Yogi's head spun around a few times and a different dog appeared!!!! In hindsight I remember my older dog use to correct the puppy often. I really urge you to find a professional to help you in the early stages so you can get a handle on him early. I can't say some good things have not come out of Yogi's problem, we discovered the world of competitive obedience along the way, I am hooked and it has made a big difference in all of my dogs...they love training!!!! Yogi trains off leash and with big dogs two years ago I would not have thought we could get this far. Yogi still has a comfort zone it is small and if a dog runs in to the space today, he just gives a warning bark, no lunging.

Our dogs are small, the way they run is very much like a bouncy bunny, some large dogs see them as prey, that is hard enough to be on the look out for, add keeping your dog from provoking an attact that just takes away the fun. Get help even if it is only a few times so you and your dog can get past this and to the more important things like just being pals and having fun. Best of luck.

Robbie, Boo Boo, Yogi, and Misty's human.
Poohkey miss you, monkey.
The Laughing Magpie is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 10:37 AM
Michele and Sergio
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 316
Submit Photo: 1
Photo Submissions 2 Times in 2 Posts
So true about the Hav running like bouncing bunnies. Some large dog owners laugh and think it's funny that their dogs would see our little dogs as prey. Maybe they have larger dogs because it makes them feel powerful. A co worker with a Basenji laughed when she saw photos of my dog and said her dog would think he is prey. I did not find that comment funny. And Sergio had a larger black dog grab his tail with his teeth. The owner was getting off the elevator and her two large dogs were practically leading her out of the elevator. She also said her dog thinks my dog is a fluffy white toy and her dog nips. She also just had a new baby. I wouldn't want those two large dogs near an infant.

Last edited by curly_DC; 03-04-2012 at 10:50 AM. Reason: typos on my phone
curly_DC is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 11:41 AM
Camellia Camelo and Carol
 
CarolWCamelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 534
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 4 Times in 4 Posts
Arrow Power-plays by humans

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly_DC View Post
So true about the Hav running like bouncing bunnies. Some large dog owners laugh and think it's funny that their dogs would see our little dogs as prey. Maybe they have larger dogs because it makes them feel powerful. A co worker with a Basenji laughed when she saw photos of my dog and said her dog would think he is prey. I did not find that comment funny. And Sergio had a larger black dog grab his tail with his teeth. The owner was getting off the elevator and her two large dogs were practically leading her out of the elevator. She also said her dog thinks my dog is a fluffy white toy and her dog nips. She also just had a new baby. I wouldn't want those two large dogs near an infant.
Michele, thanks so much for your post and your very perceptive comments. In fact, thanks to all contributing to this thread.

I'm learning SO MUCH here on the forum. First, that my Camellia's default behavior with other dogs - she tries to scare them away (bark-bark-bark, and lunge - like a fish on the end of a line - as she's on-leash when we're outside the house-and-yard) - isn't that UNUSUAL in Havanese.

Well, it's common enough in small dogs, and can easily occur in larger dogs as well. The term "reactive" fits very well.

I have some opinions on preventing reactivity in the first place - that is, ABNORMAL reactivity, as SOME reactivity, if you ask me, is to be expected from dogs - for various reasons, including genetic tendencies, how a dog is raised in the first place, and numbers of other reasons. Dogs are very sensitive creatures anyway, and they have their own sets of rules. Well-bred and well-raised dogs will make every effort to avoid conflict, both among themselves, and with us, their humans.

There's a lot of information on the Internet about this; some good, and some Rather Bad - in the sense that it's distorted, or otherwise not all that helpful. Often enough, actively mistaken!

We humans tend to interpret events as power-plays, but in my experience, dogs don't DO power-plays; that is, they have no particular concept of rank, status, nor hierarchy. Their social system is different from that. They may not want to share, but then also, they have rules-of-the-game that allow them, first, to keep what they have, and second, to relinquish stuff to other dogs, given certain circumstances. Such as, when they abandon some object, it becomes fair game for other dogs. And for humans as well.

Anyway, Michele, I share with you a horror at humans who think dogs going after our little ones is FUNNY! And agree, the attitude may very well come about because the humans get a vicarious sense of power from having their dogs scare (then, often, actually INJURE) other dogs.

I love this forum, partly because its members are so exquisitely emotionally sensitive, and because, no question, we share an immensity of love for our dogs - these fabulous Havanese.

I'm lucky to live in a neighborhood where there are lots of dogs, but most of the owners behave pretty well; there are a few exceptions.

Our local Animal Control isn't really local; their offices are 30 miles away. Their services are very good, considering how far away they are. I've lived here nearly 40 years, through large amounts of development; when I moved here there were 4 houses in a large subdivision; now there are over 100 houses in the same space, and most have dogs.

Because Animal Control does serve us well, we have a much lower percentage of free-roaming dogs than we used to have.

But we do sometimes have free-roaming dogs; that doesn't help. A few are unaccompanied by humans; that's the most difficult situation to cope with.

I wish everyone here well, and hope that none of us meet more than a few of these insensitive humans. Best if we meet none, of course!

Sun, 4 Mar 2012 08:41:40 (PST)

Camellia and Carol (CarolWCamelo)
http://www.coherentdog.org/
CarolWCamelo is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-06-2012, 12:37 AM
Jacqueline
 
sprorchid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 1,090
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 13 Times in 13 Posts
I'm going to chime in b/c I'm a lover of big and small dogs (don't care for the tweeners 20-80 lb dogs)...

as to big dogs seeing little dogs as prey, that's a generalization.

It is possible, but if the big dog is not a hunting dog or something of that nature... more likely that a big dog will play too rough with a little dog.

My female anatolian, she is all business with any dog over 30 lbs. (rescue, fear aggressive and territorial).

IF the dog is under 30, she automatically loves it. the folks at the anatolian rescue tell me many big dogs ignore little dogs, and don't view them as a threat.

someone, owner of a dog or bystander, who thinks it's funny that one dog views another as prey.... I'm not into name calling but a few come to mind.

Owning a little dog, what I see if my guy is wary of big male dogs, and the specific dog's energy. little ollie isn't afraid but he's not stupid either, he's not going to rush up to a amped up german shepherd male.

keep the little guys safe!
sprorchid is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-06-2012, 08:54 AM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,687
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 299 Times in 297 Posts
I definitely don't think it's "funny" when big (usually hunting" dogs see little dogs as prey, but it's GOOD that owners of big dogs realize this. I wonder if some of the laughter is really "embarrassed" laughter. The problem is that that prey drive can be REALLY instinctual, and VERY hard for some breeds to "think past". My room mate before I got married had two Borzois. Both were sweet, totally gentle dogs who would allow the house cats to climb over and under them, and even let them eat out of their food dishes while they ate. HOWEVER, Borzois are first and foremost sight hounds. That's how they were bred. We had two incidents where one of the dogs got loose outdoors, (since their heads are smaller than their necks, and harnesses were MUCh less common 35 years ago than they are now it was easy to "lose" a Borzoi) saw a barn cat in the distance and just launched at it instinctively. In both cases, the dog grabbed the cat, killed it with a single bite, then dropped it with a horrified look on her face once she realized what she had done. I am SURE she had no intention of killing the cat, but the instinct to run and grab overwhelmed both training and her general pleasure at having her cat-friends round her.

We go to dog trials on a regular basis. These are all HIGHLY trained obedience dogs. But there are Huskies, Malamutes, Pit Bulls, and large hunting dogs among them. I ALWAYS pick Kodi up as we walk through tight quarters. I don't want Kodi to get hurt, and I don't want another dog to get in trouble for acting on instinct. I have also made a decision that we will not do AKC formal obedience at open trials... Only at toy dog trials. I will not take the chance that during the long sits and downs, a larger dog will suddenly decide that he is either prey or a squeaky toy. Neither would end well for Kodi. And I am as worried about Kodi breaking the stay and CAUSING the problem by by moving as I am about another dog initiating the problem. His safety is just not worth it.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-06-2012, 09:27 AM
Senior Member
 
Pooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 132
Submit Photo: 1
Photo Submissions 0 Times in 0 Posts
Carol....interesting to read your comments on aggressiveness vs. reactivity.

Fionn will be one year this month and for the past number of months he has been reactive when on walks and at the window (toward dogs and cats). Doesn't matter the size of the dog either....which can be a bit alarming for me.

I know there have been comments that reactivity can be caused by lack of socialization but that certainly isn't the case with Fionn. My breeder socialized him from birth and I continued with the socialization through puppy and training classes. Also, he has been going on a daily group walk with 5-6 other dogs since he was 4 1/2 months old. He's also been to a doggie day care several times since last summer (probably 20 or more times). He's always made out just fine with other dogs. This leads me to believe the reactivity is not due to lack of socialization but rather more his temperament, or age, or a combination of the two.

I work with him all the time and he has improved considerably. These past two-three weeks have seen even more of an improvement. I like to think that my training and work is paying off but maybe it's those delicious bacon and maple biscuits he gets only when he redirects his attention toward me! Whatever it is, things seem to be getting better, but we're not there yet.

He is a very mellow dog otherwise so I'm hoping with continued work and age he will mellow out when he is outdoors on walks and at the window. He can work himself into such a frenzy. It would be nice for both him and me to enjoy our walks and not be on the lookout for other dogs the entire time.

For those who live in Canada I highly recommend Northern Biscuit bacon and maple treats!!! I'm not sure if the are sold in other countries or not, but they have been a hit with Fionn!!
Pooch is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-06-2012, 09:53 AM
Camellia Camelo and Carol
 
CarolWCamelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 534
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 4 Times in 4 Posts
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

[lsnip]

I work with him all the time and he has improved considerably. These past two-three weeks have seen even more of an improvement. I like to think that my training and work is paying off but maybe it's those delicious bacon and maple biscuits he gets only when he redirects his attention toward me! Whatever it is, things seem to be getting better, but we're not there yet.

He is a very mellow dog otherwise so I'm hoping with continued work and age he will mellow out when he is outdoors on walks and at the window. He can work himself into such a frenzy. It would be nice for both him and me to enjoy our walks and not be on the lookout for other dogs the entire time.

For those who live in Canada I highly recommend Northern Biscuit bacon and maple treats!!! I'm not sure if the are sold in other countries or not, but they have been a hit with Fionn!!
I'll keep an eye out for those treats!

Like you, I'm hoping Camellia will mellow out with age. Well, she just turned FIVE, and frankly, I don't believe she was given KNOWLEDGEABLE and careful socialization suitable for her - maybe some, but not a lot. All the same, I DO know she was constantly bullied by other dogs, and this was allowed to happen.

Sometimes I see tiny chinks in her reactive behavior - the constant effort to drive other dogs away. At age five, we don't go back and repair missing aspects from previous years! I gather Fionn is younger than five [smile!]

I do what I can to help build Camellia's confidence - in other dogs. Don't often get the opportunity. Ideally, I'd do set-ups with other dogs and their humans, but that's difficult in my neighborhood.

We'll keep working on it, though!

Tue, 6 Mar 2012 06:51:36 (PST)

Camellia and Carol (CarolWCamelo)
http://www.coherentdog.org/
CarolWCamelo is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome