Red or Red Brindle color question - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Red or Red Brindle color question

I know Red is not a common color with Havs, but we do see some pretty nice red colors. Red vs. Red Brindle..what is the difference? I see lots of "reds" who turn golden or cream with tips. Then I see some that have Dark Red, with White and then almost black tipping...are these considered Red Brindles?
Or do Red Brindles change to the "brown" shade later? Thanks!!

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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 02:58 PM
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I thought Brindles have black mixed in with what ever other color they have. So a red brindle would be black hairs mixed in with the Red hair.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 03:20 PM
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I thought brindle was a pattern that had to do with striping. This havanese colour thing gets me so confused.

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 04:03 PM
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I don't think Brindle get different color tips, but a solid color through the entire hair. The dogs carrying the Agouti Gene are the ones that may have different shades in the same hair.

From the Colours of the Rainbow Site:

Quote:
BRINDLE - Much confusion surrounds brindle markings. Brindle combinations give dark bands, more or less regular tiger striped on a lighter background any shade from cream, champagne, tan, gold or red. ( ie. Similar to brindle coats of the Boxer or Dane). Tiger stripes are apparent at birth and may run all over the body from head to tail tip in splotches, streaks or stripes of black or brown and to a lesser extent on the belly and underbody. Stripes may be bold and distinct or faint and subtle. Brindle dogs often have a dark mask on the face and at birth, may have black ears, paws and tail as well as a dark dorsal stripe. New born Brindle puppies will have a definite striped or mottled appearance.
Quote:
AGOUTI - or WILD - Some Havanese are said to have agouti hair, where each individual hair is banded in three to five or more rings of alternating dark/light colour like a rabbit or wolf. In dogs, Agouti coats are found on the Keeshond, Norweigan Elkhound, Siberian Huskies and other Spitz breeds. The ring changes are abrupt dark to light and not at all like the shaded bandings you may find in Sables and brindles. See below. The coat will be banded on the neck, shoulders, back and rump and be lighter coloured on the chest belly and inner legs. Controversy exists whether Agouti is a separate pattern of its own or a variation of Brindle or Sable. In other breeds, Agouti is genetically different from both. The same is likely true of Havanese. Not only an individual colour or marking, the term "agouti" is also the broader name of a gene which encompasses many patterns. See the inheritance page for more information

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 05:19 PM
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And speaking of the agouti gene, Kodi has developed some white hairs on his head. When I looked at him closely, I realized that every single hair is banded, black, white, black, white, etc. Never knew that happened with black hair. Anyone else see that on their black (or partially black) dogs?


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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flynn Gentry-Taylor View Post
I know Red is not a common color with Havs, but we do see some pretty nice red colors. Red vs. Red Brindle..what is the difference? I see lots of "reds" who turn golden or cream with tips. Then I see some that have Dark Red, with White and then almost black tipping...are these considered Red Brindles?
Or do Red Brindles change to the "brown" shade later? Thanks!!
I don't know for sure, though I do believe that brindles, no matter what the base color, have to show the tiger striping, right from the roots, from birth.

What's SO cool is that a good friend of mine has an ADORABLE DEEP red irish pied puppy from Baribal's in Germany arriving at the end of the month. The parents are both deep red, and the line holds its color well. So if all goes well, we could have a really nice red stud here in N.E.! (in the mean time, I get to play with him!)


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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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I am still not sure, but think the dogs that have the tipping are Red Brindle Pieds..been reading ABCs of Color. Some of the red brindle's I see photos of as young puppies look brownish red, but more brown..

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 06:37 PM
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Tillie is listed as an "Irish Red Peid" ... we can all see how well she retained HER color...

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flynn Gentry-Taylor View Post
I am still not sure, but think the dogs that have the tipping are Red Brindle Pieds..been reading ABCs of Color. Some of the red brindle's I see photos of as young puppies look brownish red, but more brown..
Pied doesn't have anything to do with tipping... that's the distribution of white and colored areas on the dog.

It's hard to see brindle on a Hav unless you see them when they are first born, and the coat is VERY short. Brindle is the tiger-stripe pattern you see on some Great Danes, Mastiffs and Grey Hounds.


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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 08:42 PM
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I've only ever seen one brindle of any flavor that didn't lighten a lot. Some reds hold color, and some don't.
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