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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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How do you guys feel about....

Ceaser milan. he seems kinda harsh, i watched this one where a dog was food agressive. He put a bowl of food on the ground, then bullied the dog into submission by poking it. now i think that if you are youing to fix a food aggresive dog, you should be the provider of the food by pouring little by little of the kibble into the bowl so that the dog knows that the person is in control of the food. any thoughts on him useing his methods on small and big dogs. also the only thing i have ever done remotly close to that is rolled miller onto his back for snapping and my hand when trying to clip his nails, and i mean biting, hard. so now i let the vet do the nails LOL
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 11:53 AM
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A lot of CM's methods are based on misunderstanding outdated theories of dog/wolf behavior that have now been scientifically disproven. That said, I've seen the man change and grow over the years. He uses a LOT more positive/reward based techniques (often couched in CM "jargon") in recent shows than in older ones.

When you watch his show, you need to remember that 1. it's entertainment, first and foremost, 2. that you can't make meaningful, long-term changes in a dog's behavior in a half hour, 3. (in fairness to him) he takes on a lot of dogs that most trainers wouldn't touch or have given up on.

If the average person has a real problem with food aggression (resource guarding) with their dog, they should contact a good, positive based trainer, not try to deal with it on their own. They could get hurt. If you are starting with a puppy, it's better to AVOID food aggression, by teaching the puppy to eat out of the owner's hand or with the owner's hand in the food dish on a regular basis. Another method you can (and should) do regularly is to take the dish of "plain old dog food" away momentarily, and return it immediately with something REALLY yummy added to it. This way, the dog will start to think of people taking the dish away as a GOOD thing!

It's never a good idea to do an "alpha roll" to a dog or puppy. All you do is risk damaging you relationship with the dog, and you don't teach them a thing. The reason Miller snapped is that he was defending himself against something he found ver aversive. (having his nails clipped) even though you know it needs to be done. Some dogs are better abut nails than others, but with ALL of them, it's a long, slow process getting them used to it. Kodi was terrible about it. Although he never bit, he struggled so hard to get away that it was simply impossible for me to do by myself. He's almost 3 now, and it still takes our groomer doing the clipping while I stuff cookies in his mouth to keep him calm during the process. I'd love to someday be able to do it at home by myself, but we're not there yet!

So I think that taking yourself out of the loop and having the vet do it can be a good option. Just be careful how much force they are using. I am SURE that part of the reason Kodi got as bad about it as he is, is that when I was having trouble I took him to the vet. When he struggled and screamed, they had two techs hold him down while the vet clipped his nails. This just confirmed in his little fuzzy brain that that nail clipping was a VERY SCARY THING! It has taken more than two years to undo that experience.


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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 11:54 AM
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I don't dislike him, but I also don't use all his methods. I do use the snapping of fingers and Shh with my dogs, together with a stern voice and it seems to work.

I honestly don't think he "hurts" the dogs, but like with our own children, every parent has a different way of parenting. Some spank, some give time outs, some do both and some do none.

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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 12:02 PM
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I don't dislike him, but I also don't use all his methods. I do use the snapping of fingers and Shh with my dogs, together with a stern voice and it seems to work.

I honestly don't think he "hurts" the dogs, but like with our own children, every parent has a different way of parenting. Some spank, some give time outs, some do both and some do none.
I don't think he USUALLY hurts the dogs, but he has come dangerously close with some of the Bulldogs he's worked with in hot weather. I've also seen him "exercise" some little dogs to the point that they are running on 3 legs when he gets done. Not good.

I think there is some good, practical management stuff that he talks about, but I think you need to sift through things very, very carefully. But that's been true of every book I've read too. I read a lot of different authors, take away what will work for me and ignore what doesn't make sense. We're all human, including Cesar!


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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 12:12 PM
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I don't think he USUALLY hurts the dogs...
You and I don't but a lot of people do, even those that are featured on his show.
And yes, I have seen at least one "Bulldog" show where the dog's tongue was almost dragging 2 feet behind the dog...

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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 01:38 PM
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I will have to admit that I watched Cesar Milan and learned a lot about dogs from him and his pop dog psychology, and that was part of the confidence I had to finally become a pet parent. He really puts ideas into language anyone can understand. He gets a lot of flack from professional who spent a lot of time and money on degrees and certificates, and they don't have the professional success that he has achieved.

I didn't want a small breed dog because I thought they were yappy and yippy and jumpy and biting. However, Cesar explained that small dogs don't think they're small. They only get away with that behavior because people think it's cute. Jumping would be corrected in a larger breed. I admit that I'm not always "alpha" pack leader with my little dog. However, I do get the language Cesar uses as "calm assertive," if pack leader is offensive to people or the wolf pack theories don't hold water.

I do think it's important for the human to be "calm, assertive."

And Cesar tells his story well, about coming from Mexico. Dogs roaming freely in Mexico probably did require different techniques to prevent them from getting hurt or killed. Cesar worked with pit bulls, I believe, to start out with. As you know, they don't have the best reputations.

And Cesar is not shy about his philosophy that the world is run by highly educated people with degrees and certificates who don't necessarily do what's in the best interest of other people or dogs for that matter.

I've also watched him with kids, and think he's great. He believes that children are great natural handlers with dogs, because they have that calm assertiveness about them.

I think some of the flack he catches is professional jealousy, just like Rachel Ray gets for being extremely popular without any formal training or education as a professional chef.
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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Carefulove View Post
I don't dislike him, but I also don't use all his methods. I do use the snapping of fingers and Shh with my dogs, together with a stern voice and it seems to work.

I honestly don't think he "hurts" the dogs, but like with our own children, every parent has a different way of parenting. Some spank, some give time outs, some do both and some do none.
I believe he DOES hurt the dogs, and their signals show that. I learned the hard way to use positive reinforcement.

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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 03:02 PM
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I've only watched Dog Whisperer on demand, and I've not ever seen him hurt a dog. As for the bulldogs, I thought he said on his show that the bulldog is the number 1 popular breed of pet in California, Cesar's locale. So, wouldn't he know how to work with the bulldogs? And, he does say that dog's aren't people and we shouldn't attribute our psychology (often dysfunctional) to the psychology of dogs or we will turn them neurotic. I'm reading one of his books now, and he has Ian Dunbar in the book with some color photographs, where he acknowledges that everyone has different training methods. He explains that he didn't always observe the best methods. And there's a note at the beginning of the show "don't try this at home."
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 03:08 PM
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I believe he DOES hurt the dogs, and their signals show that...
We'll just have to disagree on that. Just because we all love Havaneses doesn't mean that we have to agree on everything! I am OK with that!

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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 03:12 PM
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I like him, and I think a lot of dogs that would have been put down have been saved by him. Most of the dogs he works with are far past the type of treatment the average joe is capable of doing. I think like Karen said, you have to take what works for you from it. Each dog is different in personality, and what works for you, may not work for me. I admire Ceasar and the work is he doing to save dogs.
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