at what age to havs change colors? - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 05:58 AM Thread Starter
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at what age to havs change colors?

My puppy is 5 months old, she is mostly black with tan markings. The breeder told me the coat color is unpredictable and can silver out. She has been jet black up until now. For the past week I have noticed a few "grey hairs" Just a few (about 10 in total on her back). When do you typically see them fading? What do you think her chances of staying dark are? Photos below.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 08:28 AM
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My Jax was black with white markings when I got him at 4 months. At about 10 months we began to see his tail turn almost white then a gradual silvering in the rest of his coat to the point that by last summer (at age 2) it was hard to distinguish the silvered parts from the white parts. He will be 3 next week and back in March I noticed that his tail was losing some of the white/silver (right now it is 50% black) and gradually his coat is getting darker (more of a dark charcoal grey) with a few black hairs mixed in here and there that do stand out.

To look at him today you would not realize it was the same dog I got almost 3 years ago. It's the caziest thing. I don't have pics on this computer but if I can get to my old laptop later today I will try to post some of his changes over the past 3 years.

Kim
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 09:26 AM
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Some seem to continue to change throughout their lives. Others, (particularly blacks or B&W that do not carry either the silvering gene or the ticking gene) don't change much at all. Kodi is a B&W parti belton, and has changed very little. But his belton markings are fairly minimal. Some with the belton gene have a LOT of their white areas turn black spotted or sooty. We have one person who used to post regularly who had a dog that I think must have had both the silver gene AND the belton gene. that dog started out as a B&W party puppy, and ended up silver all over!


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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 10:34 AM
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I'm fascinated with the genetics of colors, and in the changing Havanese colors. I get it; in a breed where all colors are showable it's not a priority to be able to identify ahead of time what colors the puppies might be. But I'm still fascinated... especially with the changing colors - with modifying genes for silvering, greying, ticking & dilute all factoring in.

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 12:40 PM
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Tillie really started lightening up around 6-9 months, by a year she had lost most of her darkers colors and was white with a bit of grey/apricot in her ears and tail... now at nearly 2 SOME of her apricot is coming back along her back and top of her head, although it is VERY faint, but if she is next to a white dog you can definitly tell she is NOT white...

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalleBerry View Post
I'm fascinated with the genetics of colors, and in the changing Havanese colors. I get it; in a breed where all colors are showable it's not a priority to be able to identify ahead of time what colors the puppies might be. But I'm still fascinated... especially with the changing colors - with modifying genes for silvering, greying, ticking & dilute all factoring in.
I find it fascinating too. And I know from horses that you can have two animals that look very similar in color, but have it come from the interactions of very different genes.


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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 01:55 PM
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With great danes, we've managed to identify most of the color/patterns to be able to better predict what we'll get in our litters.... but then in danes, not all colors/patterns can be shown. Danes have dilute colors (blue) but not the greying/silvering modifiers, and from what I have been able to research it's those modifiers that really aren't identified yet - and it's those modifiers that cause the color changes.

Just fascinating!

Sara & GCH Halle
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalleBerry View Post
With great danes, we've managed to identify most of the color/patterns to be able to better predict what we'll get in our litters.... but then in danes, not all colors/patterns can be shown. Danes have dilute colors (blue) but not the greying/silvering modifiers, and from what I have been able to research it's those modifiers that really aren't identified yet - and it's those modifiers that cause the color changes.

Just fascinating!
But then there are the color "patterns" too... Like Irish Pied. And while it doesn't have a specific name, it is pretty clear to me that there is a genetic component to the black (or other colored) head and white bodied dogs that are so common in the breed. This is, from what I can see, very distinct from the more generic ""parti" color pattern. These dogs, if they have any color on their bodies, it is spotting along the spine. Not that these cause color changes, but they are very distinctive.

Oh, and then there's the belton gene, which is well understood, but causes HUGE color changes in some dogs.


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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 02:12 PM
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At least in danes, we can genetically identify those patterns - we have them in harlequins! If you get a chance, this is JP's website - she is one of the major players in getting dane color genetics identified: http://www.chromadane.com/chlinx.htm#linkk9color and this in particular: http://www.chromadane.com/standardcoat.htm

Since in harlequin great danes, only specific color/patterns can be shown - we have spent a lot of research dollars towards identifying those genes so we can selectively breed for color.

Sara & GCH Halle
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalleBerry View Post
At least in danes, we can genetically identify those patterns - we have them in harlequins! If you get a chance, this is JP's website - she is one of the major players in getting dane color genetics identified: http://www.chromadane.com/chlinx.htm#linkk9color and this in particular: http://www.chromadane.com/standardcoat.htm

Since in harlequin great danes, only specific color/patterns can be shown - we have spent a lot of research dollars towards identifying those genes so we can selectively breed for color.
It looks more like one of the Piebalds shown more than the Harlequins (the "Boston" pattern is the closest to what I'm talking about, but even then, not exactly. But, in Havanese, they don't differentiate this pattern at all. It's just lumped in with "Parti".

I have a friend who breeds Danes, but her lines only produce fawns and brindles... no white at all.


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