Is over-stimulation possible? - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-17-2012, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Is over-stimulation possible?

I'm having an issue that has me stumped. Kallie's 18 wks old. About 2 weeks ago we started letting her sleep in our bed. Previously she had been in a crate beside the bed, but was waking up around 3 - 4:00 AM. Putting her in our bed seemed to solve the issue - at least until about 3 nights ago. Now she's decided she'd rather be a mountain goat @ night & climb all over us. Over/around/up/down for 20 - 25 minutes. Sleep for an hour or so, then start the whole thing again. Last night she started this when I went to bed, so I put her in the crate. Then the whining started! Not barking, but constant whining @ different pitches. I got tired of putting my hand in the crate because it would only stop her for about a minute. So then I started telling her no sharply. She would settle down for about 1/2 hr, then start whining again. Around 3:00 DH said just put her back in bed with us. So she started the mountain goat thing again. I was in tears this morning. I'm so tired, and I feel like a complete failure!

We both work, I go home @ noon for an hour for potty, her lunch & play time. Then I get home around 4:30. She DEMANDS our attention non-stop. Barking wanting to play. She has way too many toys. I used to be able to wear her out & she would go to sleep around 9:00 PM for the night. Now she doesn't want to sleep at all!!! She's like a little kid that's eaten nothing but sugar all day! She was doing so well, then it's all turned around this week. Help!!!!!

Oh, forgot to say that now she won't come to me when I call her. It's a game of run away now. Catch me if you can.

Pat - AKA Kallie's & Abby's mom
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-17-2012, 12:31 PM
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I'm sorry, but I am sitting here laughing out loud! I so feel your frustration and yet I am SOOO happy it's not me! I think your baby is going through some teenage time. Sounds like she wants a mind of her own. (Although I must admit that mine still won't come unless I have a piece of swiss cheese in my hand. lol) Hang in there. It gets better with time! She won't be a billy goat forever! My suggestion is to take her on a walk right before bed and tire her out! We still do that and ours is about 16 months old now.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-17-2012, 12:48 PM
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When Rosie was still puppy, we would play fetch until she stopped fetching and laid down panting. Then we would go to bed and have no problem. As for the "catch me if you can " game. I lost my temper pretty quick as she played it every day when I was trying to catch her to get in the car and go to work. Finally I yelled STOP as loud as I could. Well she was so surprised that she immediately stoped. Now I don't have to yell anymore, really didn't after the first time. Rosie always stops on command. Whatever works.

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-17-2012, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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I knew this would give some of you fond memories! Been there/done that moments. I need to keep this post & read it again in a year. I'm sure I'll be laughing too!

Last night from about 6:00 PM on we did nothing but play/play/play! Ran her around the back yard (1 acre) til she wouldn't run any more. Let her rest for about 1/2 hr, then DH & I rolled/thru toys back & forth across the room & her tongue was hanging out the side of her mouth when we quit. I groomed her for about 10 minutes. then tossed toys, played tug for a while. THEN I took her out for a walk. She didn't want to walk at all, kept laying down on the grass beside the sidewalk. But I did make her walk for a little while (maybe 1/2 block) before we headed back home. It was around 8:30 by that time. So I thought ok, it's relax/wind down time. So I laid on the couch (I was tuckered out!) to watch tv w/her on the couch with me. Well Ms MG has to walk the back of the couch, giving me heart attacks (floating, not against wall). Up/down, up/down/bark/bark. Lay down for 2 seconds, up/down = continuous til we went to bed around 10:00. And then the above post started. I bet I got about 2 hrs sleep total in bits & pieces.

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-17-2012, 12:55 PM
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Ok. Several things. First, she is a puppy, with puppy energy levels. TINY puppies sleep a lot, but as they grow, they sleep less and play more. Especially where she is confined for a large part of each day, it's not surprising that she's loaded for bearwhen tou get home. This isn't an ideal situation, but others have made it work. You will have to be patient for a while (a fairly long while) until she grows upand settles down... She will eventually!

In the mean time, it would help her AND you if you could find a day care situation for her at least a few days per week so that she could expend her energy in play with other dogs. My personal preference would be for an in-home daycare with just a few other small dogs to play with. But some people on the board have found more traditional daycare facilities that they are happy with.

As far as nights are concerned, personally, I would not tolerate this. She needs to learn to SLEEPat night. It is NOT play-time. I would put her in her crate and TOTALLY ignore her. No hand through the bars, no sympathy, not even a harsh reproach. All of those are attention, good or bad, and that's exactly what she's looking for. Your smart little bugger is training YOU and ou need to turn things around.

If you want to have her in the room with you, you're going to have some bad nights until she believes that you mean it. (and you and your husband can't give in even ONCE!!!) This does not sound at all like a puppy with separation issues... This is a puppy who has learned to manipulate you already. These guys are SMART!!! If it were me, assuming that she doesn't need to go out to potty during the night, I would move her crate away from your sleeping area, and let her carry on as long as she wants to, but where it's not so disruptive to your sleep. She WILL eventually learn to sleep independently... You justhave to steel ourselves to be firm and consistent!

If she can't make it through the night without pottying, I would STILL set her up to sleep somewhere where she won't disturb you, but I'd put her crate (or bed) inside her ex-pen with some sort of indoor pot option in the pen with her. i use a litter box for Kodi, but a pee pad, UgoDog or whatever you choose is fine.


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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-17-2012, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Lucile, I'll gladly scream STOP! Stronger words than that were about to come out of my mouth! I'll give it a shot & pray it works.

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-17-2012, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Karen, thanks for your advise. I told my DH in the middle of the night (in tears, of course!) that we'd done it his way & this is where it got us, and starting tonight it was going to be MY WAY. Out of our room in her crate & let her scream her little head off. I always make sure the last thing before bed is potty time. She's been holding it all night, don't see why all of a sudden she can't. I knew last night as soon as I put her back in our bed that I'd undone everything I'd endured up to that point. She won.

You're right, she's manipulating us. I said yesterday evening that we're playing when she demands, not when we're ready. I truly love playing with her (and love her dearly). I just can't seem to wear her down! I'm good with doggy daycare, but DH isn't. She gets her first bordatella shot this afternoon, so I'm going to have the vet have a talk w/DH about it. I think what's frustrating me the most is that I know in my head how to do this, but I'm not following thru.

I was also wondering if having all of the 50 toys available to her all the time is getting her too worked up. Should I limit to 2 or 3 at a time?

Pat - AKA Kallie's & Abby's mom

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-17-2012, 03:06 PM
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I had four children, two when I was still a teenager and two at 28 and 30. The first one my mother and MIL both told me to let the baby cry if I was sure she was fed, clean and No diaper pin sticking her. Oh yes the baby had its own room. Well I carried that advise through all my children and grandchildren when they were with me and none of them are traumatized. I also treated all puppies the same way. I would put them in the bathroom in a box the first night or maybe the second and let them cry. I have to admit the I did not do Rosie that way, but I put her in a baby's playpen the first few nights and ignored her except when she whined to go outside.
So Put the dog in a part of the house where you can't hear it and make sure it is not hungry, clean, and nothing is sticking it and go to sleep. Get up early and take out. Shoulldn't take but a few nights to break her. The playing to much is up to you. I don't believe in crates, but that playpen came in handy for when I couldn't deal with Rosie and all the things I needed to do.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-17-2012, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Sparkle View Post
Karen, thanks for your advise. I told my DH in the middle of the night (in tears, of course!) that we'd done it his way & this is where it got us, and starting tonight it was going to be MY WAY. Out of our room in her crate & let her scream her little head off. I always make sure the last thing before bed is potty time. She's been holding it all night, don't see why all of a sudden she can't. I knew last night as soon as I put her back in our bed that I'd undone everything I'd endured up to that point. She won.

You're right, she's manipulating us. I said yesterday evening that we're playing when she demands, not when we're ready. I truly love playing with her (and love her dearly). I just can't seem to wear her down! I'm good with doggy daycare, but DH isn't. She gets her first bordatella shot this afternoon, so I'm going to have the vet have a talk w/DH about it. I think what's frustrating me the most is that I know in my head how to do this, but I'm not following thru.

I was also wondering if having all of the 50 toys available to her all the time is getting her too worked up. Should I limit to 2 or 3 at a time?
I think a happy medium would be good. You'll keep the toys more interesting if she doesn't have them ALL at once, but you can give her a few to choose from. Wearing her out with TOO much play/excitement can backfire too. It is certainly possible for puppies, just like children, to get over-wound to the point that they CAN'T settle. It almost sounds like this is what happened last night. Again, the best way to deal with an over-wound puppy is to put her in her crate or ex-pen on COMPLETE ignore... Don't even LOOK in her direction, no matter how much she carries on. I think you will find that just like that over-wound, over-tired child, she will cry herself silly, then fall deeply asleep.(which is what she really needed to start with!)


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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-17-2012, 06:00 PM
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I know my gabby does so well with routine. She goes to bed (in her crate) at the same time every night and gets up at the same time too (except for weekends, when we both get to sleep in a little bit!).

Shes over a yr now, but she has always slept right through the night (amazing!)...just now she is able to sleep in (i.e. no more 6am potty breaks), I am actually up before her now.

Shes never been a barker until late.. and what I've found is that ignoring it or stomping my feet in the other room really helps (doesnt bark as long). I wont even look at her, because they want the attention. If she barks because she wants to play I wont play (I dont want her thinking that she barks and then gets what she wants), so rather I've been telling her to sit, or lay down then we play, go out etc etc ... and it's just enough to calm her down. The barking has lessened a lot.

Best of luck.. just as she's learned that whining at night has gotten her into your bed before, she'll learn that it doesnt now (you'll likely have some more rough nights, but it will be soo worth it!)

"Dogs are miracles with paws." ~ Susan Ariel
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