Has anyone heard anything about lisi havanese as a breeder? - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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Has anyone heard anything about lisi havanese as a breeder?

I heard she was a puppy mill bu website is impressive
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 10:05 PM
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I heard she was a puppy mill bu website is impressive
I didn't find the website very impressive. Cute, but not any real information. They don't even give the dogs' registered names, nor do they say anything about health testing of their breeding stock. It says the puppies are from "Championship lines", but this means nothing. Do the parents have their championships? Does the breeder show her dogs so that she can get an unbiased view of whether she is breeding to the standard? I don't like breeders who ship puppies, so that's a problem for me right there. There is also no information about how/where the puppies are raised.

I certainly couldn't say from the website that they were a "puppy mill"... The fact that they only show one available puppy suggests not. Most puppy mills or puppy mill brokers have LOTS of puppies available. However, I would want to ASK a LOT of questions and get PROOF of the answers. I would also only buy a puppy from a breeder where I could go and meet the parents and see where and how the puppies are raised.


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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 06:25 AM Thread Starter
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Lisi havanese

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Thanks for your response. I already put 500.00 deposit down and have fallen in love with the pup. I am not interested in showing the pup but I just don't want to fall in love with a pup that becomes very ill. She was open to be coming to pick up her pup but she lives far away.
I'm so upset that this has come up at this point when I pick up the up next week.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 08:08 AM
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Krandall
Thanks for your response. I already put 500.00 deposit down and have fallen in love with the pup. I am not interested in showing the pup but I just don't want to fall in love with a pup that becomes very ill. She was open to be coming to pick up her pup but she lives far away.
I'm so upset that this has come up at this point when I pick up the up next week.
Better to lose $500 now, than have huge expenses or a bad dog in the future. Also, let me point out that you have NOT "fallen in love" with this pup. You have fallen in love with the IDEA of this pup! You have not yet even met the pup, so can't possibly know (for sure) whether you will be a good match or not.

That said, I am NOT saying you shouldn't get a pup from her. I'm just saying I'd want to ask a LOT more questions. ...and the questions I posed have NOTHING to do with whether you want to show the dog or not. These are BASELINE good practices for any reputable breeder of any breed, not just Havanese. Even breeding champion to champion does not guarantee a show dog. The majority of pups produced will still be nice, healthy pet quality dogs; good examples of the breed, with a solid health record behind them, but perhaps a minor flaw that would keep them from excelling in the show world, and more importantly, keep a reputable breeder from wanting to breed from them.

I don't like their contract either. They will replace a puppy with a life threatening genetic problem in the first 3 years. You are already saying your "in love" with a photo. Do you REALLY think you would send your dog back if, at a year, you found that it had a life-threatening illness? Vanishingly few of us would. Also, MOST genetic problems in dogs are not "life threatening" they are just expensive. You have no recourse in this case, and if you ALSO by from parents who are not fully health tested (and hopefully come from a LINE of health tested dogs!!!) your odds are even higher of having a problem.

I also don't like that she won't give you the limited registration papers until after you neuter/spay your dog. With limited registration papers, you couldn't sell registered puppies even if you TRIED to circumvent the spay/neuter clause. (and no reputable breeder would breed their dog to yours anyway) There is no good reason for withholding limited registration papers, and it can be DARNED hard to get them out of the breeder 6 months down the line. (by which point you truly ARE "in love" with your puppy, and are EXTREMELY unlikely to risk having to give your puppy back just because you suddenly find you now have an unregistered "maybe Hav".

These contract issues are things that could possibly be addressed and rectified BEFORE you take the puppy, but once you are in possession of the puppy, from what I see with this contract, you are pretty much on your own.

As far as the pick up is concerned, no matter how far away she is, whether you need to stay the night in a hotel out there or fly to pick up your puppy, as I said before, I would NEVER take a puppy without meeting the parents (at least the mother... the father could belong to someone else and be off the premises) AND seeing where/how the puppies were raised. You can learn much more about the future temperament of your puppy from watching and interacting with his adult relatives than you can from that cute little ball of fluff that is deposited into your arms.

I flew from the Boston area to NC, and then had a two hour drive from the airport to pick up my puppy. I have never regretted that decision. A Havanese puppy is an investment of the next 15 or more years of your life. The up-front purchase costs are the LEAST of your expenses... even with a healthy dog. (most people spend more on the pup during the first year than the purcahse price of the dog) It just makes sense to do it right the first time.

Again. I am NOT saying that this is a "bad" breeder. There is not enough evidence one way or the other that I can see. I am saying that you haven't really done your homework here. ...In which case, you are just blindly rolling the dice.

For all the cautions I'm giving you, (and they are JUST cautions... as I say, these are questions you should ask. I'm NOT saying she isn't a good breeder) here is an old thread on the forum about her. These people seem happy with her, which is good. But I'd want PROOF on that health testing:

http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=529


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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 05:32 PM
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That was nice of you Karen to find that trend! I like the fact that she has been breeding for quite some time . I looked last night is it the cute chocolate one ? Maybe you can just drive farther and make sure everything checks out. When does all this happen?

Maddie at 5mo old
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mimiphins View Post
Krandall
Thanks for your response. I already put 500.00 deposit down and have fallen in love with the pup. I am not interested in showing the pup but I just don't want to fall in love with a pup that becomes very ill. She was open to be coming to pick up her pup but she lives far away.
I'm so upset that this has come up at this point when I pick up the up next week.
Maybe the person who said it was a puppy mill saw the other web site the lisa dog one.

Maddie at 5mo old
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 07:31 PM
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When I was looking for my havs, I came across her website and was very interested, because she is in NY. She doesn't health test, but I know a few peolpe who have gotten dogs from her, and they are healthy and happy.


Michele
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 08:51 AM
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I think all prospective puppy buyers should bring up health testing to breeders that they are talking to, even if this breeder has a healthy track record of puppies via the rumor mill, I think every person that asks her to or tells them they should consider it because of the importance of it, is helping to plant the seed of how important it is and maybe breeders that don't health test will START health testing if the consumer is wanting them too, from a business standpoint, businesses generally do try to please their customers and while breeding isn't necessarily a business, I think the same type theory would apply, or even peer pressure to start doing these tests.

If the dogs are already healthy, then it shouldn't hurt them in the least bit to do these tests, if anything, it validates their love for the breed and future health. Its okay to bring these tests up in discussion when talking to breeders who don't

This particular breeder appears to have been breeding for a long time and i am really curious why they haven't tested their dogs and I would want to know the answer to that question if I were considering them

Kara
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-03-2013, 11:54 AM
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We have two females from her - got them in December and are very happy with them. We know two other people who have also purchased from her - one has gone back a second time. The local vet knows her and people in the pet supply store had positive things to say as well. Both puppies are very healthy. She does have a lot of Havanese, but they live in the house and all seemed very healthy and happy.

Last edited by Bcs55; 02-03-2013 at 11:59 AM.
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