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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-20-2013, 03:35 AM Thread Starter
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Westminster Dog Show

I have been reading about the dog that was supposedly poisoned at the Westminster Dog Show. It was de-barked and could still be showed. Apparently it was a prize Samoyed.

Then did some more reading - and read that it is not uncommon for show dogs to be de-barked.

I can't imagine that they would allow de-barked dogs to be shown.

Thoughts?
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-20-2013, 08:28 AM
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My personal opinion is that de-barking is abusive. It's not QUITE as bad as declawing cats, but pretty darned close.


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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-20-2013, 09:06 AM
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I've seen (heard) debarked dogs at local shows, I imagine the rules are the same. I also feel ear cropping and tail docking should not be allowed. I've heard they no longer require that but I think that's not enough. They should ban it. I'm not the biggest fan of the AKC. BTW, the 2 debarked dogs were Rough Collies in an ex-pen in the full sun on a hot summer day. Sorry for the rant.

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-20-2013, 01:06 PM
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ABUSE

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-20-2013, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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I agree - was horrified to see that this was allowed - have always watched Westminster dog show - always thought showing dogs was done by people that cared about dogs- I was reading another article that said the life of a show dog is a miserable one - very very sad in this day and age that this is being done to dogs.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-20-2013, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandi Kerger View Post
I agree - was horrified to see that this was allowed - have always watched Westminster dog show - always thought showing dogs was done by people that cared about dogs- I was reading another article that said the life of a show dog is a miserable one - very very sad in this day and age that this is being done to dogs.
I think it is painting with a VERY broad brush to say the life of a show dog is a miserable one. Certainly it CAN be. But I know LOTS of people who either owner handle their dogs, or keep their dogs at home and meet up with a handler at the shows. These dogs are beloved family members and enjoy the show environment. Take a look at Tom King's thread on Pam showing Brio. Watch the videos. That little dog's tail never stops. He is anything but a miserable dog!


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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-20-2013, 07:40 PM
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[QUOTE=Sandi Kerger;compare I agree - was horrified to see that this was allowed - have always watched Westminster dog show - always thought showing dogs was done by people that cared about dogs- I was reading another article that said the life of a show dog is a miserable one - very very sad in this day and age that this is being done to dogs.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure this applies to a certain portion of show dogs - namely the top nationally ranked and campaigned dogs that fly all over the country with professional handlers and are shown at the most competitive shows almost every weekend. Keep in mind that a show dog's career does not expand for its entire life. A show dog may be shown for two years, then retired for breeding and then retired from breeding by age 5 or so, at which point they can be just pets at the owner or go to a new family.

You cannot possibly compare a show dog's life to the truly miserable life of a neglected and abused dog, that's ridiculous. It's not a carefree life but it's nowhere near a cruel one. Please reserve that language for the thousands of puppy mill breeder dogs that languish day in and day out in filthy crates, are bred on every heat cycle for their entire lives, receive next to no human contact and medical care, and die prematurely.

Debarking is cruel and it breaks my heart to see a dog like that.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-20-2013, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
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Didn't mean to imply that every breeder showing their dogs did this - was just quoting an Article - It was on Inside Edition and I don't believe they can be compared to dogs in puppy mills either - did not think I implied that. It was actually the PETA Vice-President person who said that - and I know that PETA is controversial, but it is an interesting article and I had no idea that they allow de-barked dogs to show. This is PETA's direct quote:

Lisa Lange, Senior Vice President of Peta, says debarking is one reason why the animal rights group opposes dog shows like Westminster.

She said, “We've seen people who breed show dogs then they debark them, they declaw them, they breed them for looks and not health. These poor dogs for the most part live in curlers and crates. This is a very cruel and frankly, creepy world. “

The owner of the de-barked Samoyed is stating that she thinks one of the Peta people poisoned her dog because this PETA person was at Westminster dog show and telling her how cruel it was to have de-barked her dog. - doesn't make much sense.

PLEASE do not think that I meant this as any kind of a slam against good breeders or good breeders who show their dogs. I did not mean it that way and apologize if I ruffled any feathers.

http://www.insideedition.com/headlin...how-dogs-death
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Sandi Kerger View Post
Didn't mean to imply that every breeder showing their dogs did this - was just quoting an Article - It was on Inside Edition and I don't believe they can be compared to dogs in puppy mills either - did not think I implied that. It was actually the PETA Vice-President person who said tha. - and I know that PETA is controversial, but it is an interesting article and I had no idea that they allow de-barked dogs to show. This is PETA's direct quote:

Lisa Lange, Senior Vice Pr. ident of Peta, says debarking is one reason why the animal rights group opposes dog shows like Westminster.

She said, “We've seen people who breed show dogs then they debark them, they declaw them, they breed them for looks and not health. These poor dogs for the most part live in curlers and crates. This is a very cruel and frankly, creepy world. “

The owner of the de-barked Samoyed is stating that she thinks one of the Peta people poisoned her dog because this PETA person was at Westminster dog show and telling her how cruel it was to have de-barked her dog. - doesn't make much sense.

PLEASE do not think that I meant this as any kind of a slam against good breeders or good breeders who show their dogs. I did not mean it that way and apologize if I ruffled any feathers.

http://www.insideedition.com/headlin...how-dogs-death


I think PETA has a political agenda and needs to stick to causes that needs the publicity. Having said that, there are many things that I would never do as a dog owner and a parent, but fortunately we live in a free society and even if I don't agree with how a dog is living doesn't give me the right to take that dog away. If a dog doesn't have proper food, shelter, water and medical treatment there are certain channels to go through.

The dog show world IMO does need to take a deep look at itself for the health and wellbeing of dogs. If you watch Pedigree dogs Exposed and PDE 3 years Later, you will have a better idea of what is involved. It's breeders, judges , and breed clubs that can make a difference. The housing of some show dogs is really a non-issue compared with the genetic and physical structure crisis that many pure bred dogs face.

I have a major problem with PETA ever since they enticed small children to eat McDonald's chicken nuggets with the boxes illustrated with blood and a fanged Ronald McDonald, then not holding back with telling them how the chickens are handled and processed. This was to children, and the parents did not consent to it and many of those children refused meat from then on. Animals deserve better treatment, but traumatizing children is not the way to go about it. If PETA had its way breeding would be illegal, people could only get a dog from a shelter, and everyone would be a vegetarian, which may be better for the planet and animals, but takes our free society away.

Sorry Sandi , didn't mean to come off in that way, my problem is with PETA. They want to sensationalize and lable all people in the show world as "weird" to turn the public against breeders, when that isn't the crux of the issue. Their hissy-fits and harassment is all for "show".
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandi Kerger View Post
Didn't mean to imply that every breeder showing their dogs did this - was just quoting an Article - It was on Inside Edition and I don't believe they can be compared to dogs in puppy mills either - did not think I implied that. It was actually the PETA Vice-President person who said that - and I know that PETA is controversial, but it is an interesting article and I had no idea that they allow de-barked dogs to show. This is PETA's direct quote:

Lisa Lange, Senior Vice President of Peta, says debarking is one reason why the animal rights group opposes dog shows like Westminster.

She said, “We've seen people who breed show dogs then they debark them, they declaw them, they breed them for looks and not health. These poor dogs for the most part live in curlers and crates. This is a very cruel and frankly, creepy world. “

The owner of the de-barked Samoyed is stating that she thinks one of the Peta people poisoned her dog because this PETA person was at Westminster dog show and telling her how cruel it was to have de-barked her dog. - doesn't make much sense.

PLEASE do not think that I meant this as any kind of a slam against good breeders or good breeders who show their dogs. I did not mean it that way and apologize if I ruffled any feathers.

http://www.insideedition.com/headlin...how-dogs-death
I wouldn't put it past PETA person to poison a dog, quite frankly. Their agenda is very clear. They don't want ANYONE to own ANY animal for ANY reason.

They are totally against crates, and most dogs LOVE their crates. For instance, we have two crates in our house for Kodi, one in my office and one up in our bedroom. THe doors to both are open the majority of the time, and he STILL chooses to sleep inside them. If they need to be picked up for some reason, he gets very possessive about them, whining and moaning until they are put back where he believes they belong!

If you are going to read ANYTHING written by PETA or a PETA member, you need to read it with the understanding of their goals and objectives. They don't WANT you to have your adorable little Hav. For me, they just make my blood pressure go up!!!

As I said almost immediately in response to your first post, IMO, debarking is cruelty. But all you need to do is go to ANY dog show to find out how UNcommon debarking is... There is a LOT of noise at dog shows! As far as declawing is concerned, I've only ever seen the dew claws removed. I am not a fan of removing dew claws, because they are important to dogs in performance sports. But the people who remove dewclaws are not doing it for vanity. Most truly believe they are ding it for the well-being of the dog. And in some breeds, like hunting dogs, who work through heavy brush, dew claw removal at birth can definitely prevent painful injuries later in life.


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Last edited by krandall; 04-21-2013 at 08:53 AM.
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