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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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'Imported' question...

I've seen some breeders announcing that their dams or sires are "imported from Europe." Why is this so special? That's not their origin. And aren't US Havs great? Confused...
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 03:47 PM
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Europe Hav's in general have quite different styles in look and fur than the general american hav....Even within Europe there's different styles....Scandinavian. Dutch, French lines are for example more elegant in their looks and tread, whereas the German and Eastern Europe lines are more sturdy, more male type of look, generally longer and wider nuzzles instead a slim correct muzzles...

But that's just generally speaking.....and since travelling is so much easier, it's mixing more and more...but with breeders who stick to their preference in looks, it can be quite apparent...

I am not a breeder, but in close contact with several breeders here....


It is special in a sense that the breeder imported a new bloodline, which can be extremely exiting!

Suzanne and her Sparkling Sierra, godmother to Dinky (*) and Baileys!
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by HayCarambaMama View Post
I've seen some breeders announcing that their dams or sires are "imported from Europe." Why is this so special? That's not their origin. And aren't US Havs great? Confused...
It isn't "special", just something I suppose they feel will get a buyers attention. No matter why they come from, are they shown in the conformation ring, are they registered with AKC, are they finished Champions, are they health tested with passing results and have a CHIC number from OFA, how many litters have they had, these are some of the questions a buyer should ask.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suuske747 View Post
Europe Hav's in general have quite different styles in look and fur than the general american hav....Even within Europe there's different styles....Scandinavian. Dutch, French lines are for example more elegant in their looks and tread, whereas the German and Eastern Europe lines are more sturdy, more male type of look, generally longer and wider nuzzles instead a slim correct muzzles...
I am being EXTREMELY catty in this comment but...
So are they Havanese or Havana Silks?

~Krimsin
Proud Wife to Corey, Mother to Logan, and Fur-Mommy to Sully!

My Blog, Logan's Blog, and of course Sully's Blog
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-15-2007, 05:34 AM
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Luckily we don't have the HSD issue over here...*cross fingers* European hav's are part of the FCI....

To me a Hav is a Hav.... and in comparison to the Hav-HSD issue, some look more like the one than the other....and vice versa....it's just what one prefers in looks....and what nature decided to create.....

But let's not go there again.....

Nothing in my first response to the question was meant in any negative or demeaning etc way....

Suzanne and her Sparkling Sierra, godmother to Dinky (*) and Baileys!
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-15-2007, 07:41 AM
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If I remember correctly, I think there is a thread here some where that talks about a "Puppy mill" that has imported pups from "Hungry".

Like Kathy said, always ask about health testing for the parents no matter where the dogs come from.

"Hav" a Great Day,
Debbie & Sam & Delilah
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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Suess.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-15-2007, 08:19 AM
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yes, especially in the Eastern European countries there are quite a few puppy mills there....

So-called puppy-brokers who so called sell puppies from "accidents" by pet owners raised in home situations, import puppies from Hungary, Czech Republic and Poland.... Only a few months ago, hereby the Belgium border, by pure luck a station wagon was found with 120 chihuaha pups between 6-8 weeks old....
it was horrible......
The pups went to a shelter here in Maastricht....the shelter raised the adoption fee on those pups to prevent malicious adoptions by people would resell the pup on e-bay like sites....so only serious adoption would take place....

The pups were on their way to a Belgium legal puppy farm...yes legal.....as long as hygiene standards, animal welfare and such are met, you can become a puppy-broker, and have basically a puppy farm..... www.bolkshof.be is a very well known one.....look at their site.....they have brilliant kennels, large meadows...they are soooo good to the puppies they buy from accidental conception in family homes....
They even claim to be in cooperation with well recognised breeders national and international...their guestbook is full of happy people and dogs.....it just makes me sooo angry.....I once had a Hav registering to my dutch hav forum from there....as I heard where he was from, I asked for a pictured....my instincts didn't fool me....he was definitly some hav-mix....when I tried to educate the person, he became very defensive, those bolkshof ppl were so nice, good service, everything was clean, dogs were playing bla bla bla bla....eventually he never replied anymore.....some people just don't want to be educated......

Now that finally proof was found, Belgian government is making rules on breeding stricter.....making it almost impossible for the good, loving and respectable breeders to continue their calling.....
However, these new rules still don't apply on puppy brokers...it's terrible!!

Still, of course there are good breeders in those eastern european countries too, one just needs to find them....

So yes, I of course agree with Kathy, with the one difference that some tests here have different names...we don't have Chic-numbers and they are not AKC registered, but FCI registered, which is basically where is all started....
So do you research well....

Suzanne and her Sparkling Sierra, godmother to Dinky (*) and Baileys!

Last edited by Suuske747; 12-15-2007 at 08:26 AM.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-15-2007, 08:48 AM
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Smarty's mother is a Hungarian import. If there were test done before her breeder bought her I do not have any records of them. He bought Hungarian because there were no breeders with dogs available here that he could find. I really did not know enough about the breed to ask at the time about test (and he knew even less than I did). Her Dam was over 2 when she had Smarty and the picture of perfect health.

The Breeder of Smarty's Champion sire said "she must get her looks & size from her dam, she looks nothing like my line." She was not being catty just truthful. Smarty finished her Championship at just over 9 months with limited showing. She is by far the smartest and most outgoing dog we have ever owned. Her AKC 3 generation pedigree shows many European titled dogs. I was super lucky!!!!!!!

I'm not sure what you would look for in a Import that would be different from buying across the US. References and breed associations would be the best place to start, I would think.

Sandi, taking a new road with Smarty and Galen
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-15-2007, 04:37 PM
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import

As you read the history of the havanese, you see that most American dogs are descended from the same few havanese. The blood lines in the US are very limited. We chose to use an imported dog to sire our litter because we wanted to diversify the lines a little. We are very pleased with the puppies we have now and with their health. The sire has been completely tested per hca guidelines. Just another way to get genes into the gene pool. Susan
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-15-2007, 07:02 PM
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Suzanne, thank you for that bit of information. I find it fascinating to learn how things are in different countries. I imagine it's just as frustrating for good breeders in Europe as it is for them in Canada and in the U.S. There are BAD mill breeders everywhere, unfortunately.

My Sammy was flown in from Hungary for a woman who had planned on using him to hopefully breed and start her own kennel. She's being mentored by reputable Cdn. breeders who have several champions, one being a U.S. and Cdn. champion more than once. They know their stuff. As Sammy grew from a 8 week old pup to a few months old, they could see he was not going to fit the standard - any standard actually! Poor guy. He's great and we love him to death and he is no doubt a Havanese, but he is not at all the typical looking Hav and we get strange looks when we tell people both Ricky AND Sammy are Havs. Ah well. He just isn't 'breedable'.

He's registered with FCI, as is his dam and sire, who are tested and champions, so you just never know what kind of offspring even "good" Havs can and will produce. Who knows? Maybe he is really from a backyard breeder, or maybe he's the only one of the litter like that... we'll never know, but since he's our beloved pet, we dont' really care.

I think it's a neat idea to mix the bloodlines, but as everyone says, what really matters is checking out the health testing, history, and all that stuff that really matters. But then, I'm no breeder... just a pet owner.




Hello. My name is marj and I have MHS.




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