Anyone heard of this? - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-16-2013, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 6
Submit Photo: 2
Photo Nominations 1 Time in 1 Post
Anyone heard of this?

I just joined this forum and we had a very scary situation... I am so glad I found this forum a few weeks ago!
On Thursday of last week I noticed that Lacey was not chewing very well and by Friday she was not barking and her tongue was hanging out which never happens, so took her to vet immediately. She has a lockjaw. She can't open her mouth very wide and she has a fever of 103 and her lymph nodes are enlarged. So vet gives her antibiotics and a steroid shots. Says she thinks she might have gotten stung or something in the yard and her immune system went haywire, but really I could tell she was perplexed. I brought her in again Sat to check her temp....it was fine and lymph nodes went down. Her jaw was better but not 100%. Then I have an appt. Thursday....so I get on internet and Google lockjaw in dogs and after several repeated searches I find and article about King Charles Cavalier Spaniels and a few other breeds having this....very lengthy info but it is called MMM. Stands for Masticatory Muscle Myositis and either she knows me well enough to know I might freak or is waiting to see how she has responded before she tells me my baby might have it....she is doing much better by now but is on a very low dose steroid which is not good and even yesterday she wanted to play tug of war with her skunk. Anyone heard of this with Havanese? Just curious....trying to stay calm til I enlighten my vet and maybe she will have some answers. The information I found is really new, but easy to find if you google Lockjaw King Charles Cavalier Spaniel.
Esumrall is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-16-2013, 12:34 PM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,696
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 300 Times in 298 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esumrall View Post
I just joined this forum and we had a very scary situation... I am so glad I found this forum a few weeks ago!
On Thursday of last week I noticed that Lacey was not chewing very well and by Friday she was not barking and her tongue was hanging out which never happens, so took her to vet immediately. She has a lockjaw. She can't open her mouth very wide and she has a fever of 103 and her lymph nodes are enlarged. So vet gives her antibiotics and a steroid shots. Says she thinks she might have gotten stung or something in the yard and her immune system went haywire, but really I could tell she was perplexed. I brought her in again Sat to check her temp....it was fine and lymph nodes went down. Her jaw was better but not 100%. Then I have an appt. Thursday....so I get on internet and Google lockjaw in dogs and after several repeated searches I find and article about King Charles Cavalier Spaniels and a few other breeds having this....very lengthy info but it is called MMM. Stands for Masticatory Muscle Myositis and either she knows me well enough to know I might freak or is waiting to see how she has responded before she tells me my baby might have it....she is doing much better by now but is on a very low dose steroid which is not good and even yesterday she wanted to play tug of war with her skunk. Anyone heard of this with Havanese? Just curious....trying to stay calm til I enlighten my vet and maybe she will have some answers. The information I found is really new, but easy to find if you google Lockjaw King Charles Cavalier Spaniel.
I have never heard of a Havanese with this. Also, while doing a little digging on the internet, The symptoms don't seem to match what is going on with your dog completely, nor does the treatment prescribed or her response to it. There is no mention of a fever with it, nor would there be any reason to treat a dog with this condition with antibiotics. One thing I read over and over was that the dogs who had it needed aggressive treatment with high doses of steroids, an that dropping the dosage too fast (before 6 months) would likely cause a relapse.

The fact that she responded so quickly, and that her symptoms did not relapse when the steroid dose was decreased makes it sound to me like MMM is unlikely. Even if it IS a possibility, there are a number of other conditions that need to be ruled out before reaching that conclusion. There seems to even be a blood test that can determine if she has it.

http://www.cavalierhealth.org/mastic...e_myositis.htm

Be careful reading too much on the internet! I learned this myself when my Hav was a puppy and the vet told me he had "Puppy Pyoderma" I went home, looked it up and had a nervous breakdown! It turns out that there are very serious types of this disease that adult dogs of some breeds get, but that it is a common puppy disease cause by staff germs from the soil setting up housekeeping in their skin. Two weeks of antibiotics and he was right as rain!

It's not that we shouldn't try to educate ourselves, but sometimes things can sound a lot worse AND a lot more likely when we start to "self diagnose" without a DVM degree!


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is offline  
post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-16-2013, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 6
Submit Photo: 2
Photo Nominations 1 Time in 1 Post
Krandall thanks for the reply. Yes, I had to pick up our kitten today at the vet and showed her the article before I bring Lacey in for follow up Thursday. She said that most likely it is MMM and she is totally not freaked out by it although she did say it is more likely in pure breed dogs then others, she said Lacey was responding well to treatment and that yes she will be on steroids for alittle while but not to freak out yet it is a low dose and we will monitor it. The article said symptoms are locked jaw at different levels....Lacey responded well in less then 24 hours, a fever is a symptom and she had that and lymph nodes were swollen and she had that as well. She did not have bulging eyes, however, that could be because I caught it quickly. I will find out more Thursday when she does see her again, but she was very encouraged that she was playing with the other dog and was trying to get me to play tug of was with her skunk thingy....I will take a wait and see attitude and change diet....we will see.
Esumrall is offline  
 
post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-17-2013, 03:28 AM
Cuba and Tycho
 
Lalla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: I live in Oxford in the UK
Posts: 1,080
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 11 Times in 11 Posts
Poor you, Esumrall, what a dreadful scare; I do agree wholeheartedly with Karen re info on the internet; it IS good to try and educate ourselves, but it is SO easy to get into tangled states of over-imagining every horror. There's a happy medium, I guess, where one can manage to look stuff up but not take it all too personally. A little knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing. Once you have a definite diagnosis it'll be easier to find things out, but even then details will be different for your dog. I went through all of this with my first dog, Pamba, when she got a vanishingly rare disease called Protothecosis. It was so rare that there wasn't, in fact, much data out there. Which in some ways was a relief. I read it all, and it was all dire, but Pamba lived for two years with it where all the data suggested she would only have a matter of a very few months, so we did ok. MMM at least doesn't seem to be life-threatening, though I so sympathise with you having to go through dealing with such an difficult situation. Keep us posted on progress?
Lalla is offline  
post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-17-2013, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 6
Submit Photo: 2
Photo Nominations 1 Time in 1 Post
Lalla, thank you for your concern. Just got back from vet. Yes, she has MMM, but she is responding very well to treatment. Worst case we would have had to do iv feelings because sometimes they don't respond and mouths don't open. She is doing very well. Acting normal, just needs soft food, which she likes, and we need to watch her immune system because sometimes it can attack something else. I asked vet about raw diet, or something else and she said no. Not a good idea for a doggie presenting any kind of immune issues. But we will go back in a week and they do blood work and see how it is going. She did not do it today because she looks so good. Hopefully, things will go smoothly, with no other issues! Thanks for your concerns.
Esumrall is offline  
post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-17-2013, 08:15 PM
Dave T
 
davetgabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 10,773
Submit Photo: 3
Photo Submissions 112 Times in 110 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esumrall View Post
Lalla, thank you for your concern. Just got back from vet. Yes, she has MMM, but she is responding very well to treatment. Worst case we would have had to do iv feelings because sometimes they don't respond and mouths don't open. She is doing very well. Acting normal, just needs soft food, which she likes, and we need to watch her immune system because sometimes it can attack something else. I asked vet about raw diet, or something else and she said no. Not a good idea for a doggie presenting any kind of immune issues. But we will go back in a week and they do blood work and see how it is going. She did not do it today because she looks so good. Hopefully, things will go smoothly, with no other issues! Thanks for your concerns.
I don't believe a raw diet would be anything but helpful eventually. Ask her why a raw diet would be harmful. Raw diets enhance the immune system. I would seriously seek a second opinion in this regard. Raw diets are available in HPP processed forms which eliminates any concerns of a compromised immune system.

Dave and Molly
Ian Dunbar was awarded the Outstanding Achievement Award from I.P.D.T.A. Here's a picture of me accepting the award on his behalf.
Member of IAABC ,International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants , Member of Pet Professional Guild

Last edited by davetgabby; 10-18-2013 at 10:23 PM.
davetgabby is offline  
post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-18-2013, 02:03 AM
Cuba and Tycho
 
Lalla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: I live in Oxford in the UK
Posts: 1,080
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 11 Times in 11 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by davetgabby View Post
I don't believe a raw diet would be anything but helpful eventually. Ask her why a raw diet would be harmful. Raw diets enhance the immune system. I would seriously seek a second opinion in this regard.
I think Dave is right, I really do; there's a good book out there (Amazon.com has it and you can get it for kindle/iPad too) called "The Science of Canine Raw Feeding" by H. Turner. Dave, I'm certain, will have other suggestions for learning about all of this. I'm sure you know already that vets, wonderful as they undoubtedly are in many things, are often NOT wonderful on the subject of nutrition, in part because they are targeted, even whilst still at vet school, by pet food manufacturers who enter into deals with them IF they market and promote their foods. Vets in small animal practice will never endorse (in my experience, and from what I've heard) raw feeding. Yet no zoo vet would expect wolves to be fed from tins and packages! Can you imagine if doctors had shelves of food in their waiting rooms, and gave biased advice about what you should feed your family based on deals struck up with, say, Kellogs or Coca Cola? We'd all be up in arms.
Lalla is offline  
post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-18-2013, 08:26 PM
Senior Member
 
emichel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 701
Submit Photo: 3
Photo Submissions 8 Times in 8 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalla View Post
Can you imagine if doctors had shelves of food in their waiting rooms, and gave biased advice about what you should feed your family based on deals struck up with, say, Kellogs or Coca Cola? We'd all be up in arms.
Don't give them any ideas. (Only sort of kidding.)


Eileen and Benjamin
emichel is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome