Pennylite~ Darby - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-29-2007, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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Pennylite~ Darby

I was just looking thru the website of the breeder that you got Darby from.
I see that she offers "mini" Havanese (scary!), and that she has a "health guarentee".
Have you been in contact with her since Darby has been diagnosed with his shunt?
Her website states "we have had no health issues" which now is a lie~!
I am just curious as to how she handled her health guarentee with you and Darby~

Paws.....and reflect on what life has given you~
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-29-2007, 04:54 PM
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Darby's Health Guarantee

To MopTop, Yes, I was in touch with the breeder right away. In one of my other postings in the Puppy Area, I mentioned that she said her guarantee was in effect and if Darby died, she'd give me another puppy. That's it. She continues to claim that not one of her dogs/puppies has ever been sick, which I insist is not possible if you note the number of dogs she is breeding, along with the number of litters and I believe she's been in business since 2004. I take responsibility for not taking into account how evasive she was and choosing to ignore some of her responses to my many questions. But I hold her responsible as well for not being forthcoming, being clearly dishonest, etc. If I wanted to continue to pour money into this issue, aside from all the medical expenses, I would hire an attorney, but there again, everything is in her favor because the contract reads that we would be responsible for her attorney's fees in the event of litigation. You always hear that contracts are made to be broken, but I think the avenue I am going to take is simply put the word about about her as best I can. This has been a painful lesson; however, thank God we have the money to pay for Darby's surgery and make him well. To see him healing and happy is the best thing that could happen. We absolutely adore him and hope that this is the end of any further health issues. Thank you for your concern. I do appreciate it. Penny
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-29-2007, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Pennylite View Post
I would hire an attorney, but there again, everything is in her favor because the contract reads that we would be responsible for her attorney's fees in the event of litigation. Penny
I guess it is a lesson for all of us. You kinda have to wonder why she would even have that clause. She obviously has been liable before and now she is just covering her butt. I am really sorry to hear how so many are being taken for a ride. The only thing that makes me happy is that little ones like Darby and Skiver are recovering and doing well now. It simply makes me mad knowing that these very people are responsible for the problems that some pups have. I agree that it is more than buyer beware and these "so-called" breeders have to be brought to the light - its not just the puppy mills that need to go down.
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-31-2007, 04:50 PM
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Thumbs down Darby's breeder responses to my questions Part I

I cannot get all of this email on one of these spaces, so I will do it in two parts.
From: “Lynda Denson” <[email protected]>
To: “Penny Warren” <____________________>
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 1:12
Subject: Re: Questions
Penny Warren wrote:
Hi, Lynda!
I have some questions I’ve been advised I should have asked in the very beginning (I was too excited!). If you would take a few minutes and get back to me with answers to these questions, I would appreciate it. I see you have been talking to an AKC showdog type person or have been reading their propaganda.
You mention on your web site that the puppies have their dew claws removed, are vet checked, dewormed and are current on all shots. With that in mind, are both parents’ eyes CERF'd and can you provide me with their registered current CERF numbers? no you are buying a pet not a showdog.
Are both parents OFA certified and can you provide me with their registration numbers? No you are buying a pet not a showdog.
Have your dog’s patellas been checked? no you are buying a pet not a showdog. How old are Maudie almost 3 years old and Duke? 2 ½ years old
What are your terms if Darby develops any genetic problems? As the web page clearly states…He comes with a basic one year, puppy replacement guarantee that would cover any severe congenital or genetic problems. So far, praise God, none of our dogs or our puppies have ever had any health problems.
What are the most significant health problems with the Havanese? With US lines of Havanese, juvenile cataracts and problems with patellas are the most common problems. These problems are not nearly as prevalent in the European bred dogs. Most all of our dogs come from Europe or their parents came from Europe. There was a big problem with inbreeding in the USA Havanese toward the beginning. The AKC crowd owned all the dogs and they wanted to keep it that way. They would’t sell to anyone who was not an AKC showdog family. Actually, I’m happy that they were that way, because we went to Europe and got much healthier dogs! We have been so pleased with everything about the European bred dogs. We have had no health problems with any of our dogs. Our dogs are given a good thorough physical exam by our vets every year.
What temperament problems can be encountered? We have never had any problems with temperaments. All of our pups are born and raised in our home and are very well socialized. Havanese are very social dogs. They don’t like to be left along(I think she meant alone)for any long period of time.
Friends of ours who have purchased their dogs through a breeder had a contract, plus they had to fill out a questionnaire for the breeder. I am assuming you have a contract and would like that sent to me along with a three generation pedigree. This puppy is not being sold for breeding, or with breeding rights. You will receive a copy of the pedigree and registration papers after we receive the proof from your veterinary, showing that the puppy has been neutered. You never mentioned a questionnaire but did ask potential buyers to explain in an email about themselves, etc. Would this be considered your questionnaire? Yes, and I am led by what I feel in my spirit about people…so far, all of our families have been very pleased with their puppies and they send us updated photos and stories about how blessed they are to have our dogs.
You also mention on your web site that the puppies are raised in your home, as part of your family. Does this mean there is lots of interaction with children? They are raised in our family room. They have interaction with anyone who comes to the home. My office is in the same room and I am with them all the time I’m home. What is their environment like? They are raised in a loving home environment.
Inside your home, how are the puppies contained? They are in a small play pen type structure until they are about 4 weeks old. Then they are moved to a larger playpen structure, where they have more room to run and to play…As they get older and are weaned, they go into a large steel pen with a grate floor, and we let them out several times a day to run and romp and play in a larger open area. And if you begin this at some point, how are you handling potty training? We do not potty train. Everyone is using different methods of training, potty pads, litter boxes, crate training, bells on doors, etc. We do not potty train the puppy. That is the job of the new buyer. It is best to start with one way and to be consistent and patient. Is it with pads or a litter box as you advised for Darby in an earlier email, once we have him home? That is your choice… whatever way you think will work best for your family and schedule.
A lot of what I have read about the AKC and APRI is that there seems to be disagreement between the two organizations. I have been on sites where others claim that APR is a bogus organization. Why is there conflict between the two organizations and why are some of your regular sized dogs AKC registered and the puppies “all APRI registered”? because we CHOOSE to register APRI. We think it is a better registry. It is the second largest pet registry in the USA. AKC doesn’t like them because they are taking away a LOT of their business! We provide the same proof to the APRI to register a dog, that we give to the AKC. The APRI is a better registry for nonshowdogs. The registration is cheaper. The service is better. The people are friendly and easy to work with. The pedigrees are cheaper and of much nicer quality. We want our puppies raised as pets.. not showdogs. We do not care for the AKC or the AKC showdog crowd. They try to make it seem like they are the absolute experts on every breed and in our experience, they are just snobs. When we began breeding smaller Havanese we received a lot of hate male from AKC members and we don’t wish to be associated with them. Although we could register some of our dogs and puppies AKC, we choose to register APRI. Some of our larger European dogs are also registered AKC. One of my friends breeds showdogs and she was very interested in using some of our males for stud, since they came from such great champion lines. We registered a few of the larger ones with AKC, since we do sell our regular sized pups with breeding rights, so that we could help her out. We sell our pups with APRI registration.

Continued next reply.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-31-2007, 04:53 PM
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Thumbs down Darby's breeder responses to my questions Part II

With all the puppies you breed, do you belong to any dog clubs or organizations like the Havanese Club of America (HCA)? no.. and we have absolutely no desire to belong to any of them.

Will you be available as a resource for advice and support for the life of Darby? Yes, we always love to stay in touch with any family who buys a puppy from us. We enjoy receiving E-mails and photos and stories of how they are getting along!

What is your timeframe during which we may have Darby examined by a licensed veterinarian, at our expense, and upon written recommendation of the veterinarian for specific reasons, Darby may be returned to you for a full refund of all money paid?you will never get a full refund of all money paid. As the webpage clearly states, and as I stated to you on the phone, your deposit is nonrefundable. The puppy comes with a basic standard one year puppy replacement guarantee against any severe congenital defect that would keep it from being a good pet.

Since you do not allow buyers to come to your home to see the puppies and the parents in their home environment, is it possible for you to email me a brief film showing the puppies interacting with each other, along with their mother? It is possible, but I’m not going to do it. I don’t have a video camera and I’m not going to go rent one just to satisfy questions that should have been answered to your full satisfaction, before you ever placed a deposit on a puppy. I told you I would try to send you new pictures by E-mail, approximately every two weeks.

If you don’t want to go ahead with the purchase of Darby, that is your decision. Our web page shows very clearly that your deposit is nonrefundable. But, it is obvious that you have been filling your head with all sorts of AKC hogwash, so if you feel that you made a grave mistake by purchasing a puppy from us…and you want to “cut your losses” and run…then that is your decision. If you do not feel comfortable with us as breeders, … which seems to suddenly be the case…then you are free to go elsewhere to buy your puppy. I doubt if you are going to find a mini sized Havanese with everything you are asking for here, since the AKC showdog people don’t care for the smaller dogs…but, I’m sure you can find a Havanese out there somewhere, from someone who meets all of your criteria and want to jump through all of your hoops just to make a sale. Just let us know what your decision is, so that we can place Darby for sale again, if you decide that he is not what you want. I’m sure that we will have no problem finding a family who will love him and be happy to get him.

I feel embarrassed that I just didn't let her keep the deposit and move on but I could not imagine life without Darby in it , so I have to put those other thoughts aside.

I was thinking I should send her photos I took of Darby in the hospital with his bandage and of his belly with all the sutures. Maybe she would like to post those photos on her website!

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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-31-2007, 06:11 PM
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WOW!!! She went with people who were "friendly" and didnt like "snobs"?? She sounded awfully rude & nasty to simple questions you were asking. Good thing for Darby that he is with you now. I would def. send her the pic of him in the hospital - keep the email so that you have proof that you sent her info. on a health problem with one of her pups - ask for an auto response to your email. This way if someone ever comes to you saying that she alleges that NONE of her puppies had problems, you have proof that you advised her.
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-31-2007, 06:35 PM
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What a JERK!! Sorry, that is so appalling... grrrr. If I were you I would send a HUGE picture of poor Darby, so she can see CLEARLY what her irresponsibility has done!! Honestly, I would make known how bad of a breeder she is to anyone who would listen. I'm sorry, but this woman is no better than a puppy mill. "We don't potty train" MY @#$!! Sorry, I am just livid hearing all the nasty things she had to say. I hope Darby recovers and continues to thrive with you Penny. This is definately a lesson learned for many of us, for me it was a reassurance. Penny good for you for posting this and exposing this woman!
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-31-2007, 06:50 PM
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The problem with breeders and contracts is that they know once you pick out "your puppy", you wouldn't give it back even if parts started falling off. And you really were in love with the puppy right from the start. It's not your fault that Darby got sick and you picked him from that breeder. There was a reason he is your puppy - he knew you would take care of him.

I would hate to think of what would have happened to him if he got sick at that breeder's house. Just love him and you will get so much joy from him he will heal all the bad feelings.
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-31-2007, 07:41 PM
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GRR. GRR. GRR. I think you should let Tigger swat her (those of you who saw my tigger posting in the coffee shop). If she said one more time that you are buying a pet not a show dog. Guess What? I am buying a pet not a show dog and my breeder has testing done........ I even found info on the dogs grandparents.

What is APRI? I have to research that. Is that one of the names I have listed in the one thread about questions and suggestion for puppy mills? I will check that out...........
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-31-2007, 07:52 PM
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OK. It took me a while to find it. I post way too much.

APR is on the list not APRI. Are they the same?

Last edited by Rita; 01-31-2007 at 07:54 PM.
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